Of course, he felt justified as the following events occured:
1) we included OB with no passage in the same agreement that included the NAP
2) his borders expanded, putting my warrior inside his land
3) Instead of moving directly out, I moved on top of a hill that had vision on 2 of his cities (the hill contained Azza's warrior - who apparently was granted permission to roam about catwalk's land)
But yes, he broke the NAP.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
I know this is a strategy question - but was curious about lurker opinion. I had originally planned to settle on the deer 3S of Candace to seal the border and secure the silver/wine resources.
Now I am not so sure - won't this just present a front city that catwalk can fork?
Im definitely wary of settling where the border agreement was focused- on the hill or the other deer to the SW. That seems like inviting an attack.
So what do you think - I am leaning toward just settling a city back toward the core - one that can produce units and help with the defense, but won't be an immediate target.
i have to also remember galleys might be about.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
Edit: not to say his ideas are necessarily bad; I've never played a game with him.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Actualy i think you broke the Nap by moving that warriour the way you moved.
From my poiny of view his action are completly ok.But we see NAP diferent.
mackoti Wrote:Actualy i think you broke the Nap by moving that warriour the way you moved.
From my poiny of view his action are completly ok.But we see NAP diferent.
To clarify my previous statement, I agree with mackoti here, altough I think Catwalk might hae overreacted with his demands. When I said Catwalk is kind of insane, I meant with the way he sets up diplo rules.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
mackoti - i agree. I broke it first, and he responded in kind Actually I never even thought of it as "Catwalk broke the nap" until Commodore posted the question.
I moved out of impulse - i didnt really think about it - but once i did it, no going back.
I could have easily replayed, but that would have felt dirty for the rest of the game.
As for the diplo rules, i understand the intent fully - a way to provide additional diplo options without bogging down in full diplo. It just has to be hard coded into the game or via some other interface. There is too much gray area.
So.... now that I;ve got your attention, mackoti, help me use the 'mids! Here's what I am thinking:
tech sailing (i think i need some warning against galleys and getting my fishing nets pillaged)
tech metal casting (for 1/2 price forges and engineer slots)
tech construction
tech engineering?! for ND wonder + 1movement on roads, right?
tech currency (would it make sense to do alphabet and then currency for the prereq bonus?)
THis path is very expensive, but is it reasonable with the mids? Is there some tech that I should get to go with the wonder? I am planning on revolting to rep very soon - probably 2-3 turns.
Thanks.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
I didnt realize that the populations on the cities will update through the fog once I've seen them! This will make things about 10 times easier. I really did not know that.
I didnt need it to determine what cities grew this turn (the Jewish holy city, for example).
If I guessed right - a settler is now approaching my border. I bet it settles on the marble.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
Catwalk is building [SIZE="5"]The Great Lighthouse[/SIZE] in his capitol
He *really* didn't want me to see that he was doing so.
I felt like there was something more behind his reaction - so I ramped up the hammers-in-box diplo a little sooner than I wanted to:
He researched sailing 6 turns ago - but 2-whipped the capitol on t48 (4 turns ago)... so could he have gotten enough hammers in?
assuming a Worker whip at 19/40
he'd have 19+16 (or so), then +13 hpt since then (3 turns) that would be 74 hammers in the box. My reports show 96 - but i suppose he could have also put 1 or 2 chops into it? At a rate of 13hpt, he'll finish it in 5t. I expect he'll be able to whip before that if he wants.
He should know his only competition is Azza - actually - if Azza had enough pre-chops - he could get it done and beat catwalk to it easily. The 5 chops in the capitol BFC + a 3 whip would be 160 hammers. only need 167 at this speed to get it done.
Azza doesnt have math yet - so i guess those chops wouldn't be as effective. Hmmm... catwalk probably very safe to get it on t55 or t56.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
aargh - finally got the save and forgot one of the things I wanted to do.
I wanted to use some Seven-style AI diplo to indicate to Azza that Catwalk is building TGL.
Its interesting - Catwalk allows Azza to scout him and denies me - I have 0% chance of beating him to it and Azza is the only one with sailing. That is odd to say the least. Anyway - maybe Azza is doing C&D - crossing fingers he comes to it on his own with enough time to swipe it.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
I am imagining long lines of dog soldiers marching over thin mountain passes into my land.
![[Image: t52-1.jpg]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19053792/pbem37/t52-1.jpg)