(October 27th, 2012, 13:06)Krill Wrote: You asked for starts to be balanced by giving rules for the food, right? That was followed...to the letter, but the response varied between starts.
Yeah, food having 2 tiles for the capital: a 5+ food, and a 4+ food.
But also one of copper, horse, iron and 2 different luxuries within 6 tiles
Yeah, as long as he followed instructions that were given him, I don't have too much of an issue. But it's hard to know without seeing it. I guess I would say that if something in the starts stands out to you as something that would make the game not fun for people, then feel free to change it. But that's just my opinion
(October 27th, 2012, 13:14)scooter Wrote: My opinion: that description from Mardoc sounds like we're fine, let's do this.
Regardless, I'm finished. Sent it to Krill and Rego and Sunrise.
If you want to go with balanced by the letter and otherwise random, sunrise can just start it. If Krill or Rego wants to improve it further, they can feel free. If you want to just discard what I've done, that's also ok by me, I didn't really put that much effort in.
I agree with scooter on that one. It sounds like Mardoc followed what we asked for, so no issue with that it will be unbalanced. I mean honestly, if we think about rerolling because starts could be unbalanced than we can as well start a snake pick as I am sure one or the other isn't too happy with his civ/leader either (for example myself, as I have played IND quite a bit already).
I agree that if Mardoc followed the guidelines, it should be perfectly fine.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
So was the method followed or not? It sounds a bit like instruction set was so vague that it allowed a bit too much balancing freedom to Mardoc. Krill's insight is very valuable so I would consider thoroughly what he is saying. If those who got a bit more than "ordered" did have a generally weaker starting areas, I'm ok with this type of balancing. However if the balancing was based on e.g. to perceived skill level I would be against it.
Now weaker starting area might not be easy to judge and I would give lot of credit, if Krill thinks some of the changes did go to wrong places. Could those be fixed so that the method would be as fair as possible?
I'm not fussed either way. If Krill (or someone else) volunteers to do further revision and it's easy to do, I'm not opposed to it. I do want to thank Mardoc for volunteering to help us get started, it sounds like he did fine given the instructions that were somewhat unclearly agreed on.
(October 27th, 2012, 14:28)plako Wrote: So was the method followed or not? It sounds a bit like instruction set was so vague that it allowed a bit too much balancing freedom to Mardoc. Krill's insight is very valuable so I would consider thoroughly what he is saying. If those who got a bit more than "ordered" did have a generally weaker starting areas, I'm ok with this type of balancing. However if the balancing was based on e.g. to perceived skill level I would be against it.
Now weaker starting area might not be easy to judge and I would give lot of credit, if Krill thinks some of the changes did go to wrong places. Could those be fixed so that the method would be as fair as possible?
I wouldnt mind Krill editing to make the map more fun.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
I would mind. That's not the game I signed up for - I signed up for a 99% unedited map. We gave specific instructions to Mardoc, and my understanding is he followed it. I don't want further editing done, even if it means my start is hurt as a result.
