[SPOILERS-PBEM14] scooter's thread - Mansa Musa

[dazedroyalty]

Now I need that popcorn smilely again!

[scooter]

Alright, got a response from Sandover:

Scooter,

I'll start by saying that I strongly disagree with that last part (unless wreaking havoc means pillaging a road or two). I can get copper connected in a heartbeat and you can't stop me from getting the horses once that's done. A war would only serve to hurt us both unless it comes as a surprise attack, and I'm not about to let that happen.

I'm game for avoiding an ancient era war, but I'd like to formulate it differently for a number of reasons. I suggest that no ancient units can be used in an offensive war against the other party prior to having researched either feudalism or machinery. I rather focus on avoiding war than limiting what can be done in war, and this way obsolete units can still be used as medics (as is the standard way of play) by both parties in case of conflict.

I'm also fine with disallowing stationary scouting (moving back and forth repeatedly count as stationary) in neutral territory directly adjacent to neighbouring border, so long as that also goes both ways. FYI I will still be sending a unit for a short visit to that hill since doing so will reveal some water tiles I haven't seen yet.

Deal?

And by the way, Moogle's warrior managed to escape so the official stance is still that my war chariot was scouting.

Pretty reasonable message. I didn't waste any time and responded immediately:

Sandover,

On the copper thing - my guess is that you are bluffing, but it's something I've already taken into consideration, so it might not matter. I suppose I'll know eventually if you had it within reach or not.

Regardless, I am in favor of this deal, and most of your revisions. Attacking you would merely hurt you but it would not help me. Peace would help us both. One minor issue - I'd prefer the cutoff to just be Feudalism and not Feudalism OR Machinery. I only say that since you'll have early Metal Casting AND you plan on having a Great Engineer, which means you could bulb Machinery with that Great Engineer. Therefore, I'd prefer Feudalism to be the sole cutoff (unless you want it to be Fued AND Machinery instead of "or").

Few more comments:

1. Are we counting horse archers as ancient units? I was planning yes, but I realize HBR is technically the earliest Classical tech.

2. Scouting issue is fine (popping on that hill for 1T is acceptable) so long as you are willing to let that cut both ways - my warrior south of Satet will likely loop around it counter-clockwise in order to defog the land to your north (between us).

3. This should go without saying, but no cheese deal manipulation, such as either one of us gifting a stack to Lewwyn to use on the other person. This is a duh, but thought I'd mention it.

4. No needlessly aggressive city settlements from you. You obviously will probably plop another city or two to your east, but you should not be encroaching on Constantinople (which will be named CandyLand once I finally remember to rename it). If you found a city on my border which steals tiles from that city, I'll be an unhappy person.

Sound good on all points? If so, yes, we have a deal. And thanks for the reminder about Moogle's warrior - that was one of the funnier moments that I remember reading when i caught up on your thread.

scooter

[scooter]

Also, I'm considering using my second chariot that just built and sending it towards Serdoa as well. Now that I don't have much use for it, I might as well help out Lewwyn or at least do some exploring in that direction. Haven't decided for sure though - I'll give it some thought. Either way, I am secure on all fronts for now, so I need to take advantage of that.

It's mildly tempting to send a chariot at Gaspar and screw with him. He'll have Holkans though so I'd need luck to be on my side. Still, a potentially entertaining idea. Probably not though.

[scooter]

Well we have an agreement:

Scooter,

I'm not bluffing. Moving away from horses brought me closer to copper, I have a settler coming, and I'm not short on work power. You on the other hand can probably use a few more workers as I saw you working a forest tile.

Hm, I did not consider the issue with machinery. I don't want to change it to feudalism though. The Pyramids kinda make monarchy obsolete real early so I have a hard time seeing myself head that route any time soon. Lets say both techs are needed if a great person is used to bulb either of them?

HA:s are ancient, yes, No one ever talk about classical units in civ terms.

Looping around Satet is fine. No complaints there.

Aye, no manipulation.

I won't settle aggressively against you (and the same goes for you).

His Dark Lordship, Pharaoh Sandover

Sandover,

You saw me working a forest tile? That could have only been my newest city - when I hit enter it grew to size 2 (forest tile) and was immediately whipped, so I never actually worked a forest in that city . Sorry to disappoint!

Agreed on all points - the Machinery thing sounds fair enough. Sounds like we
are in agreement then. Deal.

scooter

Sorry that there won't be a war at this point for the lurkers (it would have been entertaining for sure) but I think this is a solid outcome and is one I'm happy with. Hopefully Serdoa will be dead and I'll by near Cataphracts once this "creative NAP" is over with, putting me in a nice spot. Things are coming together quite nicely thus far.

[dazedroyalty]

Sorry that there won't be a war at this point for the lurkers (it would have been entertaining for sure) but I think this is a solid outcome and is one I'm happy with. Hopefully Serdoa will be dead and I'll by near Cataphracts once this "creative NAP" is over with, putting me in a nice spot. Things are coming together quite nicely thus far.

This works out for the best. I'd rather win than see an interesting war!

[Mardoc]

Sorry that there won't be a war at this point for the lurkers (it would have been entertaining for sure)

It woulda been! But I feel confident we'll still see some fireworks sooner or later . At least the pace is good, so it won't be too too long til caraphracts, at worst.

[scooter]

Well well well. This game never ceases to be exciting, and amazingly we are only on T41. From Serdoa:

Hi guys,

I have declared war on Lewwyn as he tried to box me in and probably wanted to go to war with me anyway. He seems confident that he can win this war - too confident given that I have Archers and will have Axes and Spears in 2 turns. So I wonder, someone of you who would like to declare war on me as well? If not I would like to ask all of you for a NAP till T65. Thats not so long as that it should in any way harm you (especially when I have to defend instead of expand) but it would give me the feeling that actually it does make sense to put any more effort in this game.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

1. He will have copper in 2 turns? I think his city will be razed by then, but if not, Lewwyn will be in trouble.

2. I need to figure out how to deny his NAP in a way that does not broadcast to him that I'm coming too.


Bigger diplo update and a turn report will be coming up later.

[scooter]

Ok, time to catch up on diplo, as I opened my email box this morning to find several messages waiting for me. First was this from Lewwyn:

Hey, I don't have much to add. I'm going to Wardec on T 43 now instead of 42. Coming up the diagonal so I'll be able to hit the city still on T 44. I don't have much else to add right now except Sandover is wary of me and asking about what our border will be. I was no committal. Where is your 3rd city btw? Is it more South towards the subcontinent or did you go for your copper or gold?

Oh and: Go chariot Go. Take the fastest rout directly to his copper. If you can land on the hill 1 North of the "west blocker city" sign then you can go NE NE over a plain and get as close as possible to the copper before you have to travel through forest since the copper is surrounded by forest. One thing is I don;t think we have to worry about him whipping an axe in the copper city as you will be there before the city has a chance to grow at this point. I estimate T 47 for your arrival based on you telling me T 44 at the west blocker sign. Just make sure to land your second move on the hill for straight diagonals. Though if you are 1 move from that hill it won't matter about going around.

Don't mean to micro mange you, but the chariot is quite key to making sure Serdoa isn't able to put up a larger fight.

One last thing, I have no idea about Gaspar. I'm keeping our conversations friendly, he may be useful later. I don't consider him a threat as he only settled his 2nd city this turn. And if he is working with Sandover we'll know soon enough.

Oh and are you #1 in power atm?

Lewwyn

Next I got this:

Hey scooter,

Serdoa has declared war. He moved 3 warriors next to my city. I can upgrade the two warriors to axes so he can't take it. He sent me a message with the info anyway. Told me my city was pink dot and that I had to gift it to him and cede the rice tile between the two cities. And that Eureka (my second city that even shares tiles with my capital was aggressive.) And if I didn't accept I would be his target for the rest of the game. HAHAHAHA as if there was anyone else he would have shared borders with beyond me.

I sent him this message:

"Game on. War for the rest of the game sounds great to me. Though I don't think you'll live to see the end of the game.

Maybe you shouldn't have moved north."

He told me he moved his initial settler north.

So after i show my axes. He may research archery. If he does and he can get one into his city before I can kill off all the warriors, (he'll have around 4-5 by the time my axes reach there now) I may have to settle for pillaging and waiting for more axes to be built, blah. Hopefully he spent time building warriors and not Settlers.

Lewwyn

Then almost immediately after that, I got this from Serdoa:

Hi guys,

I have declared war on Lewwyn as he tried to box me in and probably wanted to go to war with me anyway. He seems confident that he can win this war - too confident given that I have Archers and will have Axes and Spears in 2 turns. So I wonder, someone of you who would like to declare war on me as well? If not I would like to ask all of you for a NAP till T65. Thats not so long as that it should in any way harm you (especially when I have to defend instead of expand) but it would give me the feeling that actually it does make sense to put any more effort in this game.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

I already commented on this in my thread, and I still need to figure out how to write back to him. In the meantime, I passed it on to Lewwyn with this message:

Hey I just got this from Serdoa - he sent it to all 3 of us. The especially pertinent info is that he will have axes and spears in 2 turns. Yikes. Opening the save now to see what things look like

I very quickly got this back from Lewwyn:

lol, well that means he's settling his copper city in 2 turns. You should still be able to reach it before the city grows and he's able to whip anything. We'll see though. He will be able to whip in the capital.

I'm kind of peeved at his comment about not being willing to put time into this game if he thinks he'll be dogpiled. Makes me wanna crush him all the more...

If he has an archer in his city when I open the save we'll see. I can't do anything next turn because my warriors will all be upgrading.

I suppose if you don't respond or you don't sign a NAP he'll assume you're going to war too. It's pretty smart. He was right to make the first strike here. And he had to decide to do it within a span of 2 turns.

Lewwyn

So that's where I'm at right now. I need to work on figuring how to respond to Serdoa and writing Lewwyn a full response on what's going on with my chariot(s) and Sandover.

[dazedroyalty]

What you need to do is find out how to be minimally involved while getting Serdoa and Lewwyn stuck in ages long war. Both of them seem like the type of players (no offense) to "hold a grudge" in game even at the cost of expanding/developing/growing. It's probably better for us if Lewwyn can only pillage and Serdoa takes it personally and fights back. We want to contribute just enough to help so that Lewwyn committs to building "more axes" but not enough to slow us down or even to make Serdoa hate us more than Lewwyn -- focus has to stay on the two of them fighting each other.

In other news, some overview pictures would be nice!

[scooter]

I'll try to take some broad overview pictures later tonight if I get the chance... In the mean-time, here's today's turn update! First off, I founded my wonderful city of Catan:



And that's right, I even named it! I also renamed Constantinople to Candy Land, and I know I hit print screen when I did that, but apparently that picture didn't take or something. Oh well. The plan here at Catan is to spend 1 turn building a worker (1T left on Fishing tech), and then next turn I'll swap to a work boat and max-hammer that out by stealing a mine from the capital (until the copper mine completes at least). Worker plan will be to finish hooking up the copper, and then go chop one of Catan's forest into a worker/granary/something. Mousetrap just completed another worker, and the order there will be to get some cottages running ASAP so I can stop working mines and use cottages + whip instead. Granaries have begun in Dominion and Candy Land as of this turn.

Lewwyn founded his copper city on T40, so both of us are at 4 cities:



Checked the other diplo screens so here's an update:

scooter: 4 cities
Lewwyn: 4 cities
Serdoa: 2 cities (apparently will be 3 by T42 and then back to 2 )
Sandover: 2 cities
Gaspar: 2 cities (just founded city2 on T40)


Quick glance at the demos: