[90 Spoilers] Saxony's splendour and Miguelusten's glory

[Charriu]

It works. Thanks

[Hitru]

If you are set on attacking Nauf is there any reason not to attack Ankara soonish? Looks like a good city that should be relatively easy to defend. Do you feel like peaceful expansion is still the better option or fear he tilts and tries to ruin you both?

[Miguelito]

I mean has obviously a nervous needle on the tiltometer, and I can't really always predict what he considers an unacceptable insult and what he can rationalize. Of course Ankara is objectively that, an insult. However he has higher power than ours, so I think we need an advantage of either him getting embroiled in a different conflict or tech.

Speaking of getting embroiled in different conflicts, Ari has upped his axe stack on the shared continent to 4. He would not really try to push with Agg axes past t100, would he? I am finishing a build and prepare a few whips just to be sure.

This turn I can produce a nice number for once:


I am pretty sure that MC over IW is correct, especially with Imp. Although I'm getting a lot of KTB on IW, so people are clearly prioritizing it.

Ari apparently didn't have it when he settled though, instead dedicating his workers to roading:


They are cottaging now, however, and probably pastured a pig or something before.

And this is pretty interesting:


So the jungle landmass(es) is either contiguous, or they are seperated only by coast. That's some pretty important information of course, and once we can spare a boat (hah) we can look out for new contacts.

[Miguelito]

also lol and @Mjmd who took over as vacation replacement for kreutzberg (Hammurabi), and the first thing he does is to just whip the whole place down, 8 pop in 2 turns (kreutzberg previously had whipped 10 over the whole course of the game).

[Hitru]

Are you planning to get some military edge, are HA, xbow or cats soon available? Or is the plan more of developing and keeping eye open in case something distracts him?

How many cities can you still settle peacefully and how long you think it will take? After that it sounds like you need some captured land so using that eco advantage to get some modern units soonish sounds reasonable to me

[Miguelito]

mildly interesting:

Are you planning to get some military edge, are HA, xbow or cats soon available? Or is the plan more of developing and keeping eye open in case something distracts him?

How many cities can you still settle peacefully and how long you think it will take? After that it sounds like you need some captured land so using that eco advantage to get some modern units soonish sounds reasonable to me

My thinking was crossbows, yes, for a standing force capable of seizing an opportunity if one arises. Considering that we are pushing for MC anyways it seems fitting. I fear catapults will also be needed, if only for defensive purposes.
Currently projected tech path is MC-IW-Archery-Machinery, with the caveat that bulbing Machinery with a low odds engineer would be quite sweet of course. But that GP probably comes too late, as Leipzig is only at something like 63/200 GPP atm. After Machinery options are CoL, Masonry-Construction, or Monotheism-Monarchy-Vassalage in preparation of a GA. I don't think I'd want a bureaucap, the fact that Plemo did is just further confirmation of map imba .

[RefSteel]

I don't think I'd want a bureaucap, the fact that Plemo did is just further confirmation of map imba

Only the way you already knew: That somehow in spite of playing in this format so often, civforum appears to have been unaware that Asoka in a field of Restricted Leaders is a rabid wombat. (I made that joke years ago in an Adventure report, but I think never actually explained what I meant: I just had it in my mind as a funnier way of saying he's like bringing - not just a gun, but - an Abrams tank to a sword fight.) The various costs for Asoka to use Bureau (prereqs more attractive, no anarchy to switch in or out, lower civic maintenance once in it, good teching to reach it quickly, etc.) are lower than for any other leader, so it's no surprise he went that way ... but I mean, everything is easier and/or better for Asoka of India on Deity. (Oh, and I haven't seen Plemo's start, but if his island looks like yours, his Fworkers would have only one forested hill on their home island to end their movement prematurely.) You have BtS Financial, which is great, especially for the long game, and you have Terraces, which are great even without Expansive, but Asoka in a Restricted-Leaders Deity game, if his home island looks anything like yours did, is on another planet. And if the mapmakers really imagined that his start needed a boost relative to ((literally any other leader)) then it would be no surprise to see even someone more fallible than Plemo running away with the game. Given who is in charge of that civ ... welllll ... good luck! It may not be too late to swing some kind of miracle, and I hope you're having fun either way!

[Miguelito]

Interesting insight Ref, glad to have you comment, as always.

Let's start with humour.
Last few turns I had been sending Ari offers of 25 and 30 gpt for his jungle city facing ours. I also had moved a galley with 2 chariots on it into range, but he was prepared and whipped a spear the turn before. This turn I get this:


Should I take it as an insult, or is he genuinely offering me the health for consolation ? I didn't take it because I think I don't need it , although with forges cities can grow a good bit more.

More importantly, who can tell what is missing in this picture:


Huh, I was losing interest anyways (evidenced by the fact that I haven't updated in 10 turns. I don't think that has happened in a thread of mine ever before). Plemo and Ari both have 11 cities, and Ari did a great job of locking me out of the jungle island. No idea how he pays for it. Ok his GNP is pretty low, but all the ICTR surely help.
Don't even know what to research now. I set the OF to 1-turn Masonry, because surely catapults will be needed, as well as OR for an eventual GA. Civil Service + Machinery seems too far out. Or just HBR and throw it?

[Miguelito]

Hm, nobody interested in this thread anymore either, or you all know the map layout already from other threads. But in fact this has renewed my interest somewhat. Point to the mapmakers I suppose.

Last night I was dramatizing a bit for effect, as I had alreadymade some further conclusions.

So, if anybody hasn't seen it, I have no iron .
Plemo does, Hagencivac does, and so does Ari (in the trade window). However - they don't have horses. naufragar, through his genius pinkdot into us, followed by his refusal to settle cities despite Imp, has neither . Empirate (Mongols) should have both.

Relevant list:
Swordsman,  Pikeman, Crossbowman, Knight, Cuirassier, Cannon, Frigate, Privateer, Ship of the Line, Ironclad,

So, at the latest come Chemistry I'm very very dead against any sea neighbour with iron, unless I get myself some before.
Nobody but the Mongols (how fitting) has knights or cuirassiers without a conquest.

Iron can be conquered from Plemo or Hagencivac.

The first is a civ superhero, with 3 more cities already than I have, and probably better expansion opportunities. He's far ahead in tech, GNP, and crop yield. Everybody would love for me to attack him, and the Mongols could even join, but then why wouldn't they just keep the gains for themselves? Plemo right now seems busy turning his marble into aesthetics wonders (seriously, the jungle offers marble for one, wine for another, silk for the next. Although he can settle marble/pig first ring on the coast. Who balanced this? Well guess Asoka needed some lift up [/rant]). In fact apparently he's not alone, from KTB I get that 2 or 3 players have it. Also somebody has construction already

civac is also a very good player. He went for MC first with Ind, whipping a bunch of forges quite early, but that may have cost him economy wise if it meant delaying Currency. Probably going to bulb Machinery, and who doesn't love attacking into Cho Ko Nus? He has just 7 cities.
More importantly of course, I'd have to conquer naufragar first, but I guess I was going to anyways? He also has just 7 cities, but very high score, which tells of good tech. He's also added a lot of power recently. I can only hope that he has some tension with the Mongols or better yet the Chinese. If he's planning on invading me I should be able to stomach it, as I also have most of my power around Chemnitz, but it wouldn't be nice for sure.

Wait and see if something develops between the other guys I suppose.

The tools at my disposal:

1. cats + horchers. I suppose our horse is supposed to balance out the other guys' iron. Of course it doesn't, but that's at least something we can do. I have never done that myself, but I've heard that it's effective.
   
2. cats + muskets. That's not that bad actually if the target can't get knights. But still pretty bad to attack into hardened LB/cat/mace etc. defenses?
   
3. rifles - well I'm supposed to have an economic advantage in Fin and press it, but it's around that time that Plemo gets frigates and just cuts me into pieces
   

Let's just say that yesterday I was pondering where to put the overflow from forge whips plus some chop, and ended up queueing a number of barracks.

[Kaiser]

I am very interested in your thread, but did not realize the ieon distribution issue