[SPOILERS] Serdoas thread

[Serdoa]

Some email dump, so you know better why I am upset:

[COLOR="MediumTurquoise"]Greetings Serdoa,

After extensive negotiations with Twinkletoes of the Ottoman Empire, we have come to an agreement that includes the ceding some of the Ottoman's lands to the Malazan Empire. As this effectively accomplished most of my goals, I agreed not to declare war on Twinkletoes in return. This effectively makes negotiations about a NAP a moot point although, as you noted you were uncomfortable with them anyway, it won't be a great loss. In addition, dividing Ottoman island holdings is no longer necessary as I am no longer looking to obtain them.

I understand if this is not quite the development you were hoping for, the negotiations provided a means to accomplish Malazan goals without a loss of resources and it seemed prudent to accept it. If you choose to continue your plan of attack, then I wish you luck.

Sincerely,
-Emperor SleepingMoogle I[/COLOR]

The NAP he refers too we had talked about if we would have got neighbours (and I told him I do not want one - and honestly, I think they do not make sense).

His last sentence does ring my alarm bells. He probably told TT that I wanted to attack as well. But even if so - and even if he sent TT emails which he should not by our confidentiality agreement - TT should have asked me about it.

Another email from scooter:

[COLOR="Orange"] Serdoa,

Okay, I've had some time to think over the peace between SleepingMoogle and Twinkletoes. I'm trying to think of why on earth SleepingMoogle would accept peace... Doesn't make sense, even if Twinkletoes offers 2-4 cities, SleepingMoogle could still easily take that. There has to be more to it...

Here's the thing. My NAP with SleepingMoogle goes until T100, with a 5 turn cool-down. It's auto-renewing for every five turn (so if he doesn't cancel on T100, it goes til T105, and so on)... What I fear is this - SleepingMoogle still has his whole army, and I'm assuming he got a couple free cities out of the deal. My guess is he turns around and sends that army at me.

I'm going to offer a longer NAP to SleepingMoogle now (say, T120), and if he rejects it, it's safe to say war is coming for me. If he accepts it, then he intends to remain peaceful.

Keep a very close eye on the power graphs in case SleepingMoogle gifts TT some of his army to defend against you... Are you going to go ahead and go through with the attack?

I'm going to get cats and horse archers rolling across everywhere... I can get Machinery quite quickly, and since I already have Civil Service, that'll unlock Xbows and Maces for me. Hopefully I can press towards Guilds and get Knights online too. If war happens, my economy will likely go in the tank as soon as it's declared, since I'm VERY dependent on the Lighthouse right now haha.

Alright that's the state of things. Going to try to get a longer NAP out of SleepingMoogle, though I'm expecting a firm no.[/COLOR]

[Bobchillingworth]

So, from SleepingMoogles messages to scooter and me, it seems that TT has ceded him several cities for peace. Not that there was even war. I have no clue what the deal does include other then some cities, but hope to find that out.

But apart of what exactly is included, if TT really has gifted some cities for basically nothing then I am pissed. First he fails to prepare for war, even knowing that there will be one, and then he not even trys to fight off the opposing forces but instead gifts away cities? What exactly is the reasoning for all that? TT won't have a chance to win now but he handed the game to SleepingMoogle... thanks very much.

I think that gifting cities away to his enemies is like his trademark play or something.

[Serdoa]

Well, I sent an email today in the morning to TT and got an answer now. I spare you my email, I basically only asked for information on the deal with SleepingMoogle:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Good Morning Serdoa (in fact very good as I am 21 today!!),

It is indeed true that I have ceded two cities to Moogle for avoiding a war. My defenses were not going to be able to cope with his two stacks. I could take one down but the other would pillage me back to the stone age and I would be a sitting duck. I have managed to preserve most of my economic and production base so I will get them back when the time is right! The NAP is not a long one, on my insistence so that I can get my cities back in a war in the not too distant future.

It was simple pragmatism as I would have lost a lot more in a war than this. Closer to the time, I hope you will sign a NAP with me so I can focus my efforts on retaining my lands from Moogle.

So now you will see my power rating start to climb quicker than before, and you know why.

Your friend,
TT[/COLOR]

I told him that I would examine the situation and would let him know some ideas if he really wants to take back the cities. But I do not think that I will go through with that. The cities he has ceded should be the ones on the frontlines, which means he ceded the hindu holy city. Hooray, if there is a holy shrine there, it should produce probably something around 20 gold right now.

And the last sentence of his email is really funny "you will see my power rating start to climb quicker than before"... ok, so you did not build military at the time when this could have saved your cities but I should believe that you now will build military to take them back?

Thinking about it, there are some interesting possibilities. Lets see where we are in 15 turns from now.

[Serdoa]

Guess what, I looked at the game and found only one of the stacks TT was speaking about: 7 HA, 6-7 Cats, 3 Axes, 1 Holkan. Additionally I've seen 3 Maces and 1 Axe on guarding duty for workers. So I probably miss some of the forces, but honestly, that does not seem all that much and when TT would have done stuff instead of producing only a pityful number of units he could have fended that off easily I think.

Anyway, as I am pissed and SleepingMoogle will run away with the game now anyway I have decided to change my plans. You can read them in the email below which I first sent to scooter for his opinion and now have also sent to TT:

[COLOR="Pink"]Hi TT,

I have now looked up what happened. And I have brought as well 2 stacks right up your borders and if SleepingMoogle has not more units then what my warrior can see, I have easily more units then SleepingMoogle had... so, we probably should discuss now if you want to have peace with me and help in crushing SleepingMoogle or if you rather would want me as enemy and hand over the game to SleepingMoogle.


Don't get me wrong TT, normally I would not be so blunt but instead we would talk now about me gifting you units and stuff. But plain simple, I am not sure if you would really use them all that well and additionally you told me several turns ago that SleepingMoogle will attack you and still you have not got much more military. Look at the demos - I started building up my military after you told me that SleepingMoogle will attack you and still I am not only clearly in front of you but also I produced much more units in the same timeframe. If I would let you go on with this, trusting that you would now produce finally more units, we probably would talk in 10 turns about your 3 Horse Archers you have produced and what to do with them. So, I don't want to offend you or anything but I rather would be sure that SleepingMoogle will be crushed and not run away with the game (what he is now doing with your additional cities which he had NO costs to aquire).


My proposal therefore is:

- You gift me Silarus River as well as the city north of it (I think thats Alesia) on your next turn
- You will produce in Pharsalus and Zama what I tell you to produce for the next 15 turns to come and will use the configuration I tell you for it
- You will build roads with your workers where I tell you to build them
- You will run 100% gold for now and gift me what you have each turn, so that I can run to Knights and upgrade my HAs
- In around 15-20 turns, I will crush SleepingMoogle with probably 30+ Knights and some other stuff and return you the cities you have ceded to SleepingMoogle as well as the cities I conquer from him on the main continent which are not right next to scooters border.

Do you agree? Or do I have to take the cities needed from you by force, therefore delay the attack on SleepingMoogle and risk that he will have so much of a technological edge that we can as well cede the game to him?

Kind regards,
Serdoa[/COLOR]

And yeah, I am really interested for the reaction of the lurkers - so let me know what you think of this plan. It's open to change obviously, depending on TT, but if he agrees the whole world will bath in blood soon.

[Serdoa]

TT writing in his thread probably means he got my email. I am so waiting for his reaction.

[Serdoa]

Well, his reaction is that he tells me that he has a place with SleepingMoogle that he won't work with me. Ok, I do not understand how not working with me and ceding cities to me because I simply have stronger forces is the same thing but I do not care any longer.

I have iniated war this turn and took Silarus River. The casualities are 1 Archer, 1 Horse Archer, 1 Worker for TT and nothing for me. But TT has some troops around and I will only be able to attack Alesia after the next turn, so he has some time to get his troops where they should be. Lets see what he does.

[Serdoa]

Oh, and TTs email as well as my answer

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Serdoa,

What was wrong with that first statement? There were no horses on the mainland? I didn't send workers over there to improve the horse in my BFC until I settled a city there, LONG after your war with dazed became one-sided - you will see that in my thread at the end of the game. I also resent the implication that I was laughing about you or doing anything other than trying to be your friend since we met. You are highly mistaken to think otherwise.

Giving two cities to Moogle does not win him the game, especially when you were going to pile in anyway and divide the land between. You have more land than he does and while he gained 2 cities, he gained a lot less in land terms than he was asking for, I assure you of that.

I made a mistake in not preparing adequately for war and I am paying the penalty for it now, but mistakes get made but don't make it personal. Don't say things like you did in your last email and it will be a lot better. Before your message I would have simply accepted that you had bluffed me into believing my border safe and that you would take my land while Moogle is restrained from doing so by a NAP.

I do not wish to argue any more. I could do all day but it would serve no purpose other than cause aggravation neither of us needs. I still respect you as a player and I will not keep this incident in my head much longer and it most certainly will not carry through to other games.

If I hadn't made a package of deals with Moogle not to support you in any way, I would accept your offer. Unfortunately I cannot as I will not break my word to him. I will not order him to break his NAP unless he chooses to himself as I hinted last night. Take what lands you want, I will try and stop you but my forces will be out of position. My only advice is pillage lightly as you will see that I have done at least a half decent job of building well-improved cities if not well-defended ones!

TT[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Pink"]TT,

that statement was perfectly true. Only, you knowed that I am looking for horses, so telling me that there are none on the mainland but not telling me that there are some right next to the capital on the island is for me not a sign of friendship. Perfectly valid for diplomacy, no doubt, but not the right move if you want to get someone to work with you, to ally with you or even more to see you as a friend.

Regarding SleepingMoogle: Are you aware how much land is out there to settle? I doubt that SleepingMoogle took your land simply because he wanted more land. Yeah, sounds nice, he told me the same thing. But why not settle all the islands out there? That is much cheaper then setting up an army. I would guess that he wanted your holy city. You have built the shrine there already and with Hindu being one of the 2 big religions in our game there should be an income of around 15-20 gold per turn I would think. More if you have already build a market there as well. And that will only get higher with banks and stuff and more cities later.

Anyway, I believe that something has to be done before he runs away with the game. I would rather have worked with you on it, but I understand that you have deals which prevent you from doing that. Therefore I took Silarus River this turn and will take Alesia in 2 more turns. If possible, be so kind and empty it of troops, so we both do not lose more then absolutely necessary. Maybe we can afterwards go on with the war against the real enemy.

And TT, I do not want your cities any longer then necessary. I would like to say more about this topic but as I do not know which other deals (besides from not working with me) you have in place with SleepingMoogle but obviously talked much with him about me and my confidential emails to him, I better refrain from doing so. I simply do not want to put down my cards only so that you tell him. No clue if you would do, but I will not take chances here.

Kind regards,
Serdoa[/COLOR]

Not much to say to all that to be honest.

[Serdoa]

[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Serdoa,

Not to worry, I have found a suitable goal for the Malazan armies. As I now have a vested interest in the continued survival of the Ottoman empire, I find your recent actions unacceptable. A state of war now exists between the Malazan empire and India. I would suggest you withdraw your army back to Indian lands, else I will be forced to destroy it.

Regards,
-Emperor SleepingMoogle I[/COLOR]

I have not much to say to that. Except for: Really? You told me one day ago good luck with my war against TT and now you tell me that you have interest in his survival?

I wonder how much more TT has ceded then his two cities...

[Serdoa]

Question:

[COLOR="Pink"]SleepingMoogle,

might I ask how it comes that within the span of 1 turn you completely changed your mind? I guess if you read the email chain below you will find your email from not to long ago wishing me luck with my war with TT. I think you will understand that I am a little bit stunned why you now suddenly decide to fight me and especially, why did you not tell me in your last email already ... you know, before I attacked TT and took a city from him. It's not like you did not know that.

Kind regards,
Serdoa[/COLOR]

Answer:

[COLOR="deepskyblue"]Serdoa,

A lot can happen in one turn. Tempers flared for everyone during the last 48 hours, my own included, and it has forced me to rethink a number of things. In the end, I concluded that this was the best course of action to follow for not just the Malazan empire, but also for myself as a participant of this game. I hope there aren't any hard feelings.

-SleepingMoogle[/COLOR]

Question:

[COLOR="Pink"]No, don't worry. I won't hold hard feelings out of game for whatever is decided in game. Though I probably will vent a little bit in my thread :P

Anyway, on to the game part: May I ask for the reasons you are fighting me? Do you not want me to border your territory? That will not happen as I do not intend to take a city which would border you. Is it to save TT? That would make me curious as to what reason there would be after you got everything you wanted from him (the hindu holy city for example).

So, let me know the reasons and we might be able to find a better solution then bloodshed between your medieval troops and my longbows.[/COLOR]

What else is there to say? As it looks right now, I will not win this game, but I probably can easily make damn sure that the only one with a winning chance will be scooter, the one and only trustworthy ally I have found.

I will reach Feudalism end of next turn if I want to, I can build HE in 4 turns (and have a 10XP unit on my own now), I can build SoZ in 3 turns (and if I do not get it then I get at least a bunch of gold). My next GP is due in 3 turns. So it does not look that bad. The only real plunder on my part was to trust SleepingMoogle at all regarding that war and being emotional about TTs "lie" regarding the horses and wanting to punish him for that instead of logically looking at the present situation and deciding my actions accordingly.

Or phrased differently: Had I put my energy into building up my empire instead of an army, then my empire would now be looking much better. Oh and I would not bleed more then 30 gold/turn for unit maintenance....

[Serdoa]

I am still having issues to decide what to do. Obviously my army is costing a lot of gold / turn and will be outdated sooner then later. Not using it now would cost me much. But using it - with TT and SleepingMoogle sending there forces - might very well not gain me anything but might even see me lose parts of my army.

If I at least could understand whats going on diplomatically and why all of a sudden SleepingMoogle jumps in. I have asked him but his answer was not all that helpful. He tells me that he does not want me to annex TTs territory but at the same time tells me that this war does only help scooter. Well, I certainly did not ask him to join.