RBPitboss #2 Athlete4life10 & Kalin

[athlete4life10]

I ended turn after 2-pop whipping the settler. The overflow however is 33! Question for the lurkers: if building a 30H chariot do we lose the extra 3H? Also, what happens with the hammers generated this turn? Help here would be very much appreciated!

HELP PLEASE

I left all units unmoved as we have some decisions to make.

I've moved Dice SE into a Forrest. Seemed natural. Apart from that, hopefully Rome will allow Ellorrs access to pass. Am working on the others.

I am thinking that we should maybe found the copper city after all... I am not too happy with how things go with the Incas, so better safe than sorry.

I'm not very pleased about them coming so aggressively out towards us either, yet we can't fight 2 of them and win. Let's wait on a reply if possible before deciding. I think if the battle drags on it's better to go SE to the coast initially. I think it might be better to go to the copper though if we can take Paris straight away. I think I can see the swiftest way to attack right now but let me do some planning.

I am also thinking to attack with 2 chariots and 1 warrior (Maddak?). The reason is that we can probably do it before Paris grows to size 2 and they have the opportunity to whip. Also if they are building a warrior, it would take them 8T so we could face 4-5 warriors instead of 2. I checked and the odds for our chariots against their warriors are around 64%. That makes it 41% for both chariots to win, hence the need for an extra warrior. If we go with this plan, the chariots should land on the deer tile.

I'm working on putting this together. I gathered by signs in game the warrior you deem should help is Bo Shek? Maddak is currently down by Rome. The only other one near by is Momaw Nadon who will need to escort the settler if it goes to bronze? Otherwise Bo Shek will have to.

I put research to 0% as I am not sure what to do next. I think the options are Maths or Archery. Maths is probably more interesting, would currently take 24T, so it will be more once we found our 2nd city.

I'm actually leaning towards Archery now. I'd hate to have to wait 24 turns for anything beneficial. If we take paris out then we should be able to take Athens with some melee units and HA's. Try and make it as quick as possible. Though we might not need HA's if it happens like that or have time to get them and would only be further behind then necessary. Dilemma, dilemma.

P.S.: Do you remember on what turn Paris was founded?

I believe T46 which would be 2160 BC. Buddhism founded in 2120 BC.

2nd Question @ the lurkers: If Buddhism is founded in 2120 BC (Turn 47), then there's no way the borders could have popped except with 2 turns of buddhism in there (non-creative) so that would mean the borders would pop on the interturn of 2080 (turn 48) and 2040 (turn 49) right?

[athlete4life10]

Rome has answered:

Dear Athlete and Kalin of the Ottomans,

You speak the truth. My own Rumia and Thannos have more than once been nearly done in by terrible beasts, which slowed their pace considerably. Ellorrs is indeed blessed.

Now, regarding the Koreans. I am a bit embarrassed. There is actually a Korean Warrior just south of Ellorrs. It did not occur to me at first that you two could not see each other due to the terrain (as I could see both units) and thought that you desired directions to their homeland. Send Ellorrs South or Southeast and you should be able to make contact.

That you have knowledge of this "Writing" is of interest to us. A shame that you cannot teach it to us. In any case, the Imperium is not opposed to working out an agreement with the Ottomans, although I must admit that it does not appear that we would have anything to gain from such an agreement at this time, while we potentially have much to lose. We would consider signing Open Borders just long enough for Ellorrs to travel directly west through our territory, though we wonder if you have anything to offer. Obviously, things would be different if one of our scouts had reached your borders as well, so I hope that you understand. We desire good will with the Ottomans, but one cannot be too cautious.

And, of course, if you pass through our lands, we expect you not to share any of that information with any other civilization. However, I would like to point out that you should still be able to expect safe passage by taking a detour north and west. You will still come into contact with Korean territory by heading in that direction. I noticed that Ellorrs is slightly wounded, so he could spend a moment healing near the safety of our borders.

On a final note, I was wondering what your impression of these other civilizations you mentioned are, especially the Inca. I am actually the second leader of the Interim people (formerly the Romans under the previous leader), but I understand that my predecessor had brief contact with the Zulu and had a favorable impression of them before they were destroyed. I can only imagine that these Inca are bloodthirsty terrorists. Should I expect my scouts to come under attack if I approach them?

Until our next communication.

Best regards,

Whosit, Ruler of the Interim Imperium

[athlete4life10]

OK. Here's the best we can do I think:

Turn 50
Owen Chops
Beru moves SW of mine
Bo Shek moves to horses
Settler moves 2W of horses

Turn 51
Owen chops completes
Beru roads tile
Bo Shek moves to Rice
Chariot 1 completes, moves to Rice
Work mine and furs
Settler moves 2W of lake

Turn 52
Beru finishes road
Owen moves SW of mine and begins chop
Bo Shek moves SW of mine
Chariot 1 moves SW of mine
Chariot 2 completes, moves SW of mine
Settler moves SE of copper and founds city
Pending no barbs in radius of new city, Momaw Nadon moves to SE opening of Paris border
Work rice and furs

Turn 53
Beru and Owen chops completing it
Declare war, Chariots 1 & 2 and Bo Shek move to Deer
Momaw moves to SE of Paris
Work rice and Mine

Turn 54
Chariots 1 & 2 attack and Momaw Nadon
Chariot 3 completes, moves to SW of mine


Chariot #3 would not be able to attack until Turn 56 though we could probably have a 2nd chariot to go with that if we waited for T57. Who knows we might not need the "2nd Wave" though. I haven't done anything to calculate food/tech just focused on how many chariots we can get in position quickly enough.

I'm also leaning back towards staying on Math. Lets tech as if this will succeed the first go around. If we're going to gamble might as well go all in right?

I'm pretty sure the most they can have in Paris when we attack is 2 Warriors unless they've gotten reinforcements from Athens by then. They could whip Paris for another on 55 (I think) so our 2nd wave would be facing another 2 warriors atleast if they do that.

[athlete4life10]

Actually considering we don't really need the road SW of the mine it might be better to use Beru elsewhere with chops. This will allow us to not tip our hat until Turn 52 rather than right now.

[athlete4life10]

E-mail from the Inca's. I must confess I did not notice that Kalin had also sent them one after my last repsonse. First his and then their response:

E-mail from Kalin:

Hello Incans,

I assume that you plan to found the city 2S of the rice in which case that would be perfectly agreeable to us.

We are still undecided about where to make our 2nd city. We thought that the spot Athlete mentioned can be founded and become productive sooner.

Also, we would like to ask you to please not share any information about us or our plans with Rego/Byz. Can we have your word on that?

Kodi: I appreciate your advice, we'll consider it carefully. If you are concerned about Rego, would you consider helping if we were to do something about them?

Kalin of the Ottomans

Inca response:

Wow! Thanks for the quick replies from both of you :D

1) I was talking about the coastal city that you proposed 4S of your copper. We are proposing a movement of that city 1NW. Let me know what you think!

2) We are unsure exactly of where your capital is located, but I am assuming that this 4S3E city is the "whale" city? Are there any other defining resources that would help identify the area?

3) Although I have yet to speak with my colleagues, that copper you mentioned is rightfully your copper and we agree to your proposed settlement. Keep it well defended!

Now, the city that we want to found this turn is not 2S of the rice, but 2S1W of the rice. Is that location still reasonable?

And we shall keep any information shared between us safe. I assume you will do the same with any information we provide you? I personally feel your sentiments regarding regoarrarr, and at this point in time, the relationship we have forged is stronger than that with regoarrarr.

May our civilizations continue to prosper in cooperation with each other!

Kodii of IKZ

My response:

Hi Kodii,

1) I will need to discuss with Kalin

2) This city would actually be out of reach of the whale. There is a cow that would fall into it's BFC and there is a peak 1 tile to it's East. That should give you enough information to fully locate it.

3) Thank you for recognizing our right to that. Atleast some of us can be open and up front with each other (darn Byzantine's! ).

In regards to your city let me discuss with Kalin.

In regards to Byzantium, do you have any quecha nearby? Either their capital or their 2nd city? Or near us for that matter (as a potential temporary gift)? As Kalin mentioned we might be interested in help if we do decide to go further than seek compensation for their aggressive settlement. 1 or possibly 2 extra units could be a big factor in any decision in that direction and/or success of that nature.

Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

[athlete4life10]

I read that Inca e-mail as that copper's ours and they're not moving towards it. So we could go to the SE if need be. I'll have time in the morning to have a look at it. Side note I can play at pretty much any time Wednesday so no need to rush through it.

I'm not particularly keen on letting them get 2S1W of the rice. 2S would be much better, However if we cave to that we should get dibs on the spices. Planting a city around there possibly gifting one to them for compensation or something, as we're giving up a lot letting them settle so far N already.

[athlete4life10]

A reply to Rome and I'm off to bed:

Greetings Mighty Rome,

Thank you for the directions to the Korean Sentry. We would like to proceed as you have directed but doing so would put us further away from that North and West passage around your borders. If we could secure safe passage through your land we would love to greet the Koreans this turn. You are correct we really have nothing to offer at this point in time except information and our word. Given that you mentioned you will meet the Inca's shortly, if you continue to head N you will in all likelihood need safe passage through our borders to continue. We would be happy to return the favour to you that you might provide us now. Under all the same stipulations as one might expect .

Also we have little to nothing to gain from taking undue advantage of such an agreement and to make an enemy of Rome would be fool-hardy at any stage. As for the Inca's we have found them mildly co-operative though their nature is yet hard to discern. Having heard of their conquests we had been prepared from the start for any outrageous actions yet they seem to only want peace. I think it was perhaps fear of the future power of Zulu that drove them to behave so aggressively towards Zulu which can only make you wonder...

Given the now open distance between you two I would encourage you to fill it as fast as you can. There may come a time where we share an intent to expand into the same civ .

Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

[RefSteel]

HELP PLEASE

Couldn't you just test it in a sandbox, or any random single-player game? I'm pretty sure though that the 3H would not be lost. I believe you lose overflow only when it exceeds the cost of that from which it's overflowing. Thus:

T0: Double-whip worker with lots of hammers already invested
T1: Worker complete; 25 overflow into warrior while generating 1hpt
T2: Warrior complete; 25+1-15=11 overflow into Settler

BUT

T0: Double-whip worker with lots of hammers already invested
T1: Worker complete; 25 overflow into warrior, while chop comes in for 20h
T2: Warrior complete; 25+1+20-15=31, but only 15h (the cost of the warrior) overflow into Settler. The remaining 16 hammers are supposed to be turned into gold, but (thanks to a bug in patch 3.19) are actually lost in this case.

[Jabah]

HELP PLEASE

Pretty sure you keep that (extra-) overflow for the next build (as well as the turn production).
So charriot #2 will allready start with 3h+1t extra production.

(if you are worry too much about Paris defending warriors, you could always whip the charriot#2 once it had this extra production in it, you should be able to overflow very nicely in charriot#3. Of course your city will be size1)

One thing you should also decide and plan is if you want to capture or auto-raze Paris...

[athlete4life10]

One thing you should also decide and plan is if you want to capture or auto-raze Paris...

I've been under the assumption we would be keeping Paris all along. It's probably in the best spot for the area. Highly defensible against the Byzantine's. They've got nothing but flat land to approach on and it's a holy city to boot!

Thanks for the whip overflow as well RefSteel & Jabah! Testing takes time no matter how trivial so sometimes it's just easier to ask .