[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[oledavy]

Shoot's response to my message:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Dave,

I'm also hurting for happiness; I'll check if there is anything next time the save comes back.

Last time I saw the save (before your turn as as of writing this Rego has it) I had visibility on two of Rego's destroyers near Zalwake (spelling?) and one transport in Mackoti. Can't wait to see his oil cut off to deny those.

Finally, I tried to go back and check what the terms were for the EIs, but well we had a lot of chats and I just don't have time right now to reread them all unfortunately. My memory was that it was for the most part a guarantee not to attack you with them and that you would get them back after the war. I can't remember if there was some sort of compensation for those that are lost, but if there was I'm pretty sure it was rather vague.

Shoot[/COLOR]

Shoot's message to me and Darrell:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Rego currently has two destroyers near me -- 1 3NW of Zakalwe and the other 1 tile SW of that. Neither of those has any promos, and the to the SW is injured (19.2/30; some pretty good rolls with a frigate) so as close to those as possible looking to attack would actually be fine. One destroyer North of Mackoti would also be helpful as rego has a transport there that is threatening a couple of my cities that would be nice to get rid of. If the destroyers are instead being produced on the east side of your empire, somewhere around the Illios waters would do to protect EIs there (my HE city is Ankara, so I have at least 1 inf a turn wanting to be transported there). In terms of transports, I still have 17 EIs (likely to be 15 once rego's destroyers have their way) so I'm not hurting too badly in that department as 5-move transports don't provide much more than 4-move EIs . Destroyers for both EI protection and bombarding cultural defense is a lot better bang for the buck on my front than are transports.

In other news, if you have stuff to drop off next to Zakalwe, now would be the time. I attacked Mardoc this turn. I got some pretty bad rolls that left a MG at 1.8 health and a LB at 3.6 health (damn those 60% borders, I can't wait for destroyers to help with getting rid of those). I have 4 rifles sitting on land next to the city. Obviously that means he needs to reinforce the city, so if you had any designs on Zakalwe (and Dave on Bato) now would be the time to put pressure on it without fear of a counter attack.

I also am seriously hurting from WW, but also have no resources for anyone. All the more reason to end this war quickly, eh?

Shoot[/COLOR]

We talked briefly via chat on how the war was proceeding, and confirmed the conditions for the loaning of 19 East Indiamen:

1. The loan lasts for the duration of the war, and the ships may not be used against me.
2. He owes me 53 gold (1 hammer = 1 gold) for every ship lost.

It's light on my end, and I was tempted to drive a harder bargain. However, I did not want to do so in an ex post facto fashion.

Now the question is what do I do with these East Indiamen after the war?

[oledavy]

Turn 135

Rego researches combustion
NoSpace researches combustion
Darrell researches electricity
Shoot researches assembly line

Turn 136

Darrell researches economics

The real story here is of my relative decline in tech standing and Shoot's amazing recovery. There are several reasons for my own deceleration:

1. Spening ~1200 gold on unit upgrades.
2. Running the culture slider for the last couple turns.
3. War Weariness/drafting unhappiness and the resultant lower populations.
4. Relative lack of markets, combined with only a handful of grocers banks.

After I get combustion, I really need to tech to corporation to get the +1 trade routes online and build Wall Street. Additionally, I need to make a serious infrastructure push of banks. This should get my economy humming nicely again. In max beakers I'm nearly on par with NoSpace and Darrell, however, the lack of gold enhancing buildings means for every turn I spend in max science I need to spend one on max gold. I imagine they're both getting a 1.5/1 or 2/1 ratio in that regard.

Shoot's economic growth is a result of a pair of MoM enhanced golden ages and a well played trade mission in my capital. His GNP is still lagging behind mind but its a far cry from how badly he was lagging a couple dozen turns ago.

Rego's GNP has dropped precipitously as a result of the war. NoSpace and Darrell are still both teching significantly ahead. I was lagging before I kicked off this war but things have only gotten worse. I don't really have much to say in my defense here.

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Report from the Northern Front[/SIZE]





Shoot razed the filler city of ActionDrip on his turn. However, he apparently failed to raze the city of Mardoc on the latest turn, which will mean the end of his offensives for awhile. He's currently moving up reinforcements to besiege Mackoti.

[SIZE="3"]Report from the Eastern Front[/SIZE]







This turn mostly consisted of situating forces for my next couple of offensives. My objectives for the next few turns are:

1. Capture SuckitLebron
2. Pillage Rego's oil

I've lastly left open the option to raze Sciz next turn - as it's only defended by a single rifle at the moment.



Lastly, the newly founded city of Archangel. It will pop its borders next turn to give it an instant 20% defense bonus in case Rego decides he wants to assault it. The CG2 Rifle I have staffing the city should make that rather difficult though. The whales will be improved on t138, which should help with my happiness crunch a little bit.

[oledavy]

SuckitLebron

I've assembled a dozen rifles and a cannon to assault the city, and have been bombing the defenses down with my navy. On turn 137 I'll land on the grassland tile west of the city - he can't whip or draft any additional defenders with only 3 pop, so there is no need to rush it, and landing will bring my cannon into play for the attack on turn 138.

Rego's Oil/Sciz

I have four riflemen and two cannons loaded up off Samaria. I have the option of razing Sciz on the next turn, however, I will probably just pile everything onto the desert tile 1SW of Rego's oil. It needs to be pillaged ASAP, and 10 rifles + 2 cannons + air support should be enough to push him out. Plus, I can fork Sciz when I make my push towards Plako, so there's no hurry.

Plako

I currently have a slew of cannons and rifles coming down the tubes for the assault on Plako, which will piggyback onto the assault force I will put ashore to take out Rego's oil. While they heal after the battle I'll put more reinforcements ashore before making the final push for the capital.

Bato

I haven't given much thought to Bato yet, but I would like to seize it before Shoot does. However, taking Plako has the priority here. In accordance with Shoot's request, I detailed 2 frigates to bombard the city's defenses down to give the impression I'm planning on landing. At the very least, it will give me the option later on.

Commodore/Far Open/Profane

Hoping I can come back in and seize these later, we'll see how things develop.

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Report from the Eastern Front[/SIZE]





Darrell gifted me a destroyer on his turn, and just in time too.





Rego whipped a transport in Bato, and a destroyer in Commodore.

The transport is annoying as it forks all three of my cities along the peninsula. I drafted a rifle in Antioch, used the newly christened HMS Lend-Lease to block any attempt to boat Tyre, and positioned both my frigates to block boating Antioch.

My hope is that he will take this as a sign that the city is lightly defended and try to boat it. I have enough defenders there that he has no chance of razing the city - and if he undertakes this, it servse the purpose of clearing out some of the defenders of Bato. If he does attempt to boat the city by killing one of my frigates, I'll kill the transport with my destroyer and put an end to this new threat.



My SuckitLebron attack force put ashore this turn. I covered the naval stack with the HMS Revelation to prevent him from hitting it with his destroyer from Commodore.

I decided to forego boating Sciz and landed everything to the southwest of Rego's oil (5 rifles, 2 cannons). Next turn promises to be bloody, but should end with me in control of Rego's oil and the southern island.

[SIZE="3"]In Other News[/SIZE]

My cities are working on a variety of infrastructure/military builds. My core is focused on cannons and rifles, my outlying cities on dikes. I plugged the rest of my gold into railroad, which I should finish at break-even research on turn 139 Shoot curiously researched Music, I suppose to build culture in his new cities? NoSpace finished off radio. They are now one tech away from bombers, at which point things become much more dangerous.

[oledavy]

Darrell's response to Shoot:

[COLOR="Yellow"]Fortunately last turn I started moving around the Peninsula for just that reason. I am all the way around now and will be in position to do something useful this next turn.

Darrell[/COLOR]

[oledavy]

[COLOR="Yellow"]Dave,

Hey there. So..... what are we doing here?

I seemed to remember your saying, back in the peaceful days gone by :-), that you had said that you had built an army and felt the need to leverage that into more land. And while I was frustrated with the targeting, I at least understood where you were coming from.

So, fast forwarding a few turns, where are we? You've certainly cost me any chance of winning the game (thanks!) but has your position improved much? Shoot's taken 3 good cities and is likely to take another this turn (though I'm not sure I can count T-hawk as a good city anymore given the culture squeeze). You've razed several and promo'd up your horde of EIs but in terms of material gains, it's just one small island city (and likely another one before too long).

Meanwhile, darrell is 20K beakers up on you and even more on Shoot. So if you think that the two of you can take him out in the end-game, I respectfully submit that is not going to happen.

I guess this is where I get frustrated - the "standard" thing to do for someone in a situation like mine would be that I tell you (for example) that I will defend only against you and let Shoot and/or darrell have all the gains from the war. But the impression I've gotten from you (and to an extent Shoot or even darrell) is that your heart really isn't into this game (and probably hasn't been for some time). So it's all well and good for me to say "Neeneer neeneer I'll make sure you won't win this game" when the likely response from you is "So what?"

So.... yeah I guess that's kind of what I'm saying. I'd be interested in your thoughts. If you want to wait and see whether you manage to disconnect my oil before responding, that's fine. You know where to reach me.....

dan.
regoarrarr
inca[/COLOR]

me: Hey Dan
Dan: hi
me: so your email
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]I really don't know where to begin
I guess first of all I would like to compliment you for soldiering on and playing turns, I can't imagine its very fun anymore[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: eh it's not that bad
just gotta lower expectations
take joy in the little things
like all of your ships i'm going to sink before you get combustion / darrell sells you more ships
have you ever read up on pbem8?[/COLOR]
me: nope
what occured that game?
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: i was in the same basic situation there
except i was a replacement player
it was cton aw
shoot and warriorknight were the 2 main powers
i was much further behind
the highlight of my game was when shoot invaded with like a stack of 80 infantry, MG and artillery
that i beat off with cavalry and cannon
but yeah it's not nearly as fun in this game as it was say 30 turns ago.....
but that wasn't my point - if you still feel like you're doing the right thing and are trying to win
by all means continue
you don't need to call it off to make me feel better
i was just wondering if you still felt like you were getting the land you felt you need[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: in all honesty, this is the best way, the only way I saw to win this game
[/COLOR]Dan: sure i can understand why you felt that way when you attacked
do you still see yourself going to a winning position from here?
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: unlikely, but possible
Darrell and NoSpace are going to have to knock heads sooner or later
I had checked out of this game right after coming to college, but am now once again committed and would like to see it play out
I'm sorry if you feel persecuted, the decision to dogpile you was because you stood the best chance to win and the combatants had the most to gain from you[/COLOR]
Dan: no i understand that
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: it was a long-running plan about 20t in the making
though the execution of the declarations of war was haphazard to say the least
one thing to talk about a dogpile, another thing to get people to declare[/COLOR]
Dan: yup
me: and Krill was merrily teching away, needed a crisis to get things going
Dan: so how are you going to win this game?
me: I trust this entire conversation is in confidence?
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: it is now, if you want it to be
i mean generally i don't share chats with other players, and certainly wouldn't if you asked[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: would appreciate that
nothing to spectacular
finish this war
tech up/build infrastructure
get Darrell and NoSpace to kill each other
then come in for a darkhorse win[/COLOR]
Dan: so do you see yourself staying out of the darrell / nospace war?
me: yes
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: why would they fight each other 1 on 1?
[/COLOR][COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: both stand a solid chance to win the game, would rather try to kill the other than leave it up to chance with a space race
NoSpace has to be bored with this game to begin with[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: from my conversations, darrell is much more bored with this game than nospace
but i coudl be wrong
i definitely think the odds of either of them fighting the other 1 on 1 are zip
at tech and mfg parity, defender always wins
now on a 3 on 1, not so much :-D[/COLOR]
me: anyway, that's my extreme longshot scenario at winning
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: yeah
that's not going to happen
unfortunately for me
i can't spin any scenario that involves you not attacking me
that makes any difference to your long term plans......
unless we manage to 4v1 darrell
cripple him
then 4v1 nospace
seems optimistic :-D[/COLOR]
me: you weren't the original target
NoSpace was
Dan: i like that one better
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: 5 player game, key thing to keep in the majority
easier when you have someone to paint as the runaway
originally NoSpace
then you got your priest economy up and running
my civ micro is crap compared to you guys, knew that coming into this game
naming myself the Templars was a bit tongue in cheek because I knew much of what I did would end up looking weedy by comparison[/COLOR]
Dan: ah
gotcha
me: easiest way to have a chance at winning, start a war or two
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: i will say that you have played the diplo game much better than i initially gave you credit for
there are definitely some civ th ings i've seen out of you that are weed
but out of game definitely solid from what i've seen[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: meh, appreciate you saying that, things a little less rosy under the hood
as for diplomacy, have a tendency to reveal more than I should (in this chat for example)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: heh
not a lot of wrory talkin to a cripple[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: still not a good habit :P
you're not out of this game yet[/COLOR]
Dan: darrell told me that my problem is the opposite
me: stupid destroyers/transports
Dan: that i don't tell people enough info
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: generally true
coming into this game, was very wary of your diplomacy
seeing you in past games, best diplomat at RB hands down[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: awwwwww

for all the fat lot of good it's done me.....
the only game i've won i just beat darrell - and who CAN'T do that? :[/COLOR])
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: heh
but yeah, didn't want you to be under the impression that I harbored any grudge against you this game
just made sense from a diplomatic standpoint[/COLOR]
Dan: no i understand that
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: your galleon east of Nowitzkiville was a perfect reason to get a war kicked off and get my lagging allies in line
point of inquiry:
was that galleon loaded? were you planning on boating/threatening to boat Hattin the next turn?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: hmm
i can't remember
i defeinitely was moving towards trying to strongarm you into a nap
or sink some of those EIs / boat some of your cities
but you got defense in there just in time[/COLOR]
me: panicked when I saw that galleon, drafted a defender in Hattin and northern cities
Dan: yeah
me: bluffed with 8 East Indiamen
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: i think if i had about 2-3 more turns
i could ahve razed 3 cities and sunk a bunch of EIs
and was planning on using that as a threat to strongarm you into a nap
in hindsight, i did not realize how much damage airships do
even though i have an 8/6 str advantage, when i have to fight every battle at 80HP, it's rough[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: yeah, they're definitely a nice edge
but yeah, had been out of contact with Darrell and shoot for a month, didn't know if they still wanted to do a war (or were ever on board to start out with)
galleon appears, a couple urgent emails
and an extremely uncordinated declaration of war[/COLOR]
Dan: heh
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: another point of inquiry: why didn't you have more military?
after I cancelled NAPs that is[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: right before you declared?
or way back 30-40t[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: back when I first cancelled NAPs
~t110[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: ok
well i think my power was right about the same as yours
wasn't it?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: kept pace with mine right off the bat, then I pushed past
I recall you commenting on how fast my graph was spiking[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: not sure
guess i wasn't worried about maces and muskets
in hindsight, i should have gotten rifling muche arlier of course[/COLOR]
me: would have made things much more difficult
Dan: didn't really realize shoot (and darell) had it in for me too
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: Darrell I get
I thought you would have been worried about Shoot's spiking power graph
thought he was gunning for NoSpace?[/COLOR]
Dan: yeah
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: I got ya'
meh, at any rate, did I manage to answer your questions?[/COLOR]
Dan: yes
me: in that long spiel of too much information :P
[COLOR="Yellow"]Dan: as long as you're having fun and think you can win
i'm fine continuing[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: give myself about a 5% chance
most likely will end with a Darrell space victory[/COLOR]
Dan: i think you've got a decimal point in the wrong place there
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: hey, let me dream a little :D
first MP and RB game
I need to have some hope[/COLOR]

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Report from the Eastern Front[/SIZE]

Turn 138 featured a mix of good and bad news. The good news is I finally took SuckitLebron - securing my hold on the southern island.





I opened the save to find the city defended by a machine gun, two rifles, a musket and a longbow. I kicked things off by attacking with airships, bringing all of his defenders down to 80 hit points. At this point, my CR2 cannon west of the city was getting an amazing 48% odds for the attack. I attacked with it and lost, then sent in the rifles. The first won against his machine gun at ~80% odds, and the romp was on from there. I managed to take the city without losing a single unit other than the suicide cannon.



Only a forge survived the attack on the city, a disappointing haul of infrastructure for what was once a twelve population city. On the plus side, I now own Rego's southern island. As Darrell requested I renamed the city:



Both Leningrad and 1995WorldSeries are decent hybrid commerce/hammer cities - with a mix of villages, workshops and grassland hill mines surrounding them. I additionally get extra sources of rice and claims, but most notably, ivory when 1995WorldSeries pops its borders. It goes obsolete at Industrialization but will be useful in the meantime.

Archangel doesn't have much going for it, but grabs both marble and whale (soon to be obsolete at combustion, but every turn of happiness helps). One advantage of being financial and the Dutch is that due to dikes and the power of 3 commerce coastal tiles, any little fishing village can eventually be productive. I set Rego's captured worker to work preserving the remaining forests around the city. I going to turn this into a decent little great person farm once I get the National Park up and running.



Rego took the bait in the north and went after one of my frigates with the transport. I killed it flawlessly with the HMS Lend-Lease, so the threat from the north is temporarily gone. I expect he will whip another transport/destroyer out of there before long though. For the time being though, I'm ignoring the city. However, probably sooner rather than later I need to attack it to prevent him from putting more warships in the Eastern Sea and to preclude Shoot capturing the city.

Now for the bad news:



Rego heavily reinforced the oil tile, bringing in three extra machine guns and two more rifles. Shoot recently suffered a couple major setbacks in the north, allowing him to pull in these forces. He took an additional machine gun from the Far Open garrison. I ran a WB test and found that even if I hit the tile with all my airships, Rego would survive with 3 wounded machine guns and a rifle to my own four wounded rifles, which he would probably mop up on the following turn with a combination of catapults and reinforcing rifles.

Shoot just suffered a rather bad defeat around Mardoc, losing a dozen rifles and infantry. Additionally, he cannot conclude the siege of Mackoti because Rego has too many defenders. On top of all this, Darrell's reinforcing destroyers haven't arrived yet, and Rego killed off a couple of his East Indiamen last turn. Basically, his offensives have stalled until he drafts a new round of infantrymen and gets them to the front. This could not have come at a worse time because this allows Rego to shift defenders south to block my latest assaults, forcing me to adjust my plans.





What I did on my turn was withdraw my force from the desert tile 1SW of Rego's oil, and combine it with reinforcements from the continent into an assault force of nine rifles and four cannon.Likewise, in the East I loaded up the nine healthy rifles from the battle of SuckitLebron an moved them north. Next turn I have the option of reinforcing my six rifles on the hill, making amphibious assaults on Far Open, Commodore or Profane, OR land forces next to the cities and besiege them.

A particularly attractive option I see is landing in that forest tile beside Far Open and besieging the city. Taking Commodore would also be really nice. It's one of his few remaining high pop cities that can whip out destroyers, its on an island: isolated from reinforcements or counterattack from the mainland, and is a city that Darrell could possibly contest or try to conquer himself.

I keep having to catch myself and not attack Sciz. It would be a simple matter to detail an East Indiamen and three rifles to raze the city. However, the forces are better applied somewhere else. The city has no infrastructure, contributes very little to his war effort, and doesn't give him any extra line of sight on my forces. I can snag it at just about any time and fork it when I head to Plako.

So, next turn I have the option of striking at a number of outlying cities, or making a straight push at his oil and then Plako. I really am not sure which option is better, and it will depend on the situation when i catch the save again. I would generally say that going for the killing blow by taking Plako would be the best move. However, he has a reprieve from the north, and I don't feel my stack is large enough to take on such a venture yet. At the moment, I have twelve rifles healing in Leningrad and 1995WorldSeries, in addition to more cannons coming off the line on my mainland. I may end up waiting for these before starting my overland campaign.

There are a couple things I'm concerned about for next turn. Rego may hit my rifles on the hill with his catapults and rifles. It would be costly but he probably could do it. I would rather not lose my supermedic, but him going on the offensive would mean less rifles to deal with on the defense and would make my job of taking out his oil tile a bit easier. In the East, he can threaten my stack with a destroyer and a transport he just whipped in Far Open. If I were him, I would hit the HMS Revelation with his transport then kill it with his destroyer. I would really prefer not to lose that destroyer. Maybe I'll get lucky :D

In other news NoSpace teched liberalism and Shoot researched steel. More dikes are going up across the empire. I'm looking forward to getting the turn back.

[oledavy]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]A heads up, his destroyers are now 1NW and 2W,1N of Mardoc. Both are injured (one at 19.2 and the other at 27.0 strength). However, it would also be very advantageous to have at least one stay on that tile 1SE of Mackoti to prevent him being able to reinforce the city at least for next turn (I should hopefully be able to take the city either next turn or the turn after at the worst).

Shoot[/COLOR]

This could be trouble, destroyers there could use the fort canal to enter the Eastern Sea next turn and cause me problems there. It's unlikely, but possible.

[oledavy]

One final note, on my turn recon spotted an Indian airship in Plako