[SPOILERS] Serdoas thread

[Serdoa]

No new picture, but imagine that it pretty much look likes the last one

And border have popped, Sleepings army is next to my border now. Lets see what he does - either move in or...

[Serdoa]

I have already written a long post (with pictures) but it won't get posted before the game hasn't moved on. And as SleepingMoogle has posted yesterday but not played I assume that might again take time till he plays. No clue why, maybe he waits for an answer from TT.

[Serdoa]

More then 24 hours that the save was sent. SleepingMoogle even posted in his thread afterwards, so he at least had a chance to let us know if he has to hold it... yeah, I am tired of that "lets hold the save for days for diplo reasons". We had that only 10 days ago for 3 days - its getting old.

[Serdoa]

Save sent on finally, here is what I had prepared I think 2 days ago:

Well, he moved his army one tile east. Probably a trap. Well, here's a screenie showing it



You can see what I have in my city as well. Guess what happened?



And now it looks like this:



I am sure SleepingMoogles other troops are near and I will probably lose all of my Knights but I simply do not care
anymore. I won't wait till TT has Jannisaries or let him EP-bomb me (well, he did that and I did back to him now)
so they can see into all my cities and track my forces. I also won't let SleepingMoogle simply wait it out till
he can upgrade his forces because he easily can research faster then I can.

Ok, that above is a lie. There is no well-thought-out reason for this attack. I know that he has set up a trap or at
least I am pretty sure. I am simply tired of this war because my civ is right now pretty one-dimensional. What I
mean with that? Well, look:



Can you spot what my mainland-cities are building? All of them? Since several turns now... Yes, I should get more
pikes, I know, then those 2 mover-stacks would be pretty irrelevant. Well, anyway.

Here is a picture of the demos after clicking end turn:



As you can see, I am pretty much in everything 3rd, except for land area. Shows me that I should have let TT
do whatever he thinks and simply expand like a madman. I poured so many hammers in forces right now, I could
have easily build 6-8 new cities + workers + work boats without that war. But this is hopefully more interesting
for the lurkers

What else do we have? Yeah, killed units and lost units



So, lost forces this war (the lost axes are from the Dazed war):

10 HA - 330 hammers
6 Galleys - 198 hammers
3 Triremes - 99 hammers
1 Warrior - 10 hammers
---------------------
Total - 637 hammers
Land - 340 hammers
Naval - 297 hammers

Killed forces (again only this war):

9 Axes - 207 hammers
9 Catas - 297 hammers
7 Worker - 280 hammers
6 Spears - 138 hammers
4 Maces - 184 hammers
3 Triremes - 99 hammers
3 HA - 99 hammers
2 Holkan - 46 hammers
2 Archer - 32 hammers
2 Galley - 66 hammers
----------------------
Total - 1448 hammers
Land - 1283 hammers
Naval - 165 hammers

1448 - 647 total hammers - ratio of 2.24 to 1 (so they invested 2.24 hammers for every one I invested)
1283 - 340 land hammers - ratio of 3.77 to 1
165 - 297 naval hammers - ratio of 0.55 to 1

So, I guess I am winning the land war pretty clearly (and had I not thought he does not have Engineering I would
even have a better ratio) and I am losing the naval war (but those are simply the 4 galleys I lost more because he
had triremes when I did not + him being able to 3move on water with those triremes).

[Serdoa]

When I opened the turn I was greeted by a peace offer from SleepingMoogle. Unfortuantely it was only a 10 turn peace offer without any additional reparations.

Therefore I sent a diplo message to SleepingMoogle (yesterday night, so it could have been written better surely)

[COLOR="Pink"]Dear SleepingMoogle,

I have seen that the Malazan Empire has offered peace. I assume that means you do not want to fight the Austrian Empire any longer? If so, we should discuss some points. I think you understand how much we have lost simply by you interfering with our war with TT - an interference which was in no way provoked by us. You knowed our plans from the start and the Austrian Empire had even assumed that it would be war allied with the Malazan Empire. But the Malazan Empire decided on its own - without even speaking with us - to pull out of the war and take its prize and then tried to hinder us to take ours. Those actions of the Malazan empire caused heavy losses which have to be indemnified. Those losses thus far as we see them are (only talking about major losses):

7 HAs, mostly 2 promos including one great general medic unit
A razed city
ca. 1000 hammers which could have been invested differently
7 turns worth of research (ca. 1500-1800 beaker)

And that does not include additional losses which may be inflicted due to TT getting better technology. But be assured we do not intend to rob you off or ask for so much that you would have to throw away your empire to pay for it. But we think asking for reparations is not too much and should be answered positively, given that we believe that both empires do intend to improve their relations and don't want to stay enemies for the rest of this game.

So, our proposal for a peace treaty is as follows:

The Malazan Empire and the Austrian Empire will restore peace. To reassure the people of the Austrian Empire of its good intentions, the Malazan Empire agrees to the following deals:

- 1 Great General Knight (Medic 3) will be gifted permanently to the Austrian empire to take care and help the wounded
- There will be no interference with the war against TT, except if this interference is agreed by the Austrian Empire and does help the Austrian Empire
- 3 Settlers, 5 Workers, 3 Galleys will be gifted within the next 10 turns
- 500 gold will be gifted within the next 10 turns, another 250 10 turns later
- a NAP till T125 will be agreed upon

Let me know your stance on this, we surely can discuss those points. But please understand also that the Austrian empire does have to receive reparations, otherwise we can't gurantee that it won't fall into a revolution and that might very well lead to a dictator to come into power. And that guy surely would give the people what the people want. And right now that is Malazan blood.

Kind regards,
Emperor Serdoa[/COLOR]

Do I ask for much? Yeah, I guess so. But then, I want to get back into the game. He did expand and everything and is still clearly leading, so why should I not request reparations? Appearantly he does see that differently as this message indicates:

[COLOR="Cyan"]Serdoa,

If you wish to continue the fight, then by all means feel free to reject the offer. I made it because I have no desire to stick out my neck for Twinkletoes any longer, which effectively means I'll stop making an effort to protect his cities and resources if we are to continue warring with each other. While we can argue until the end of days over who was right, I doubt that we can sway each other's opinion. Hopefully once the game is over and we can see each other's spoiler threads, we'll better understand the other's viewpoint.

Now considering that:

*My hammer losses are roughly equal to yours,
*The decision to raze Alesia was yours, not mine,
*I also spent a large amount of hammers that I would have preferred to spend on growth,
*Tanking your economy was, again, your decision,
*You already have a new GG from taking out my stack,
*You would already get an equal or greater amount of gold and hammers from capturing the remaining Ottoman cities than what you asked for,

And because my non-intervention would be a given if peace were to be signed, I see no reason to add anything to the offer. If you wish for a NAP to ensure I won't intervene in your war against Twinkletoes, then I won't mind adding one, but other than that it's a one-time white peace offer, take it or leave it.

-SleepingMoogle[/COLOR]

I wonder if it makes sense to answer that email and still try to get something out of it or if I should simply stay at war. If I would only better understand how war weariness works. I would hope that SleepingMoogle does have a lot right now for all the lost units, but I simply do not know if it works this way if he losses them on "neutral" ground. Somebody here who can enlighten me?

[Ilios]

Serdoa, I could be wrong, but sending that war reparations demand makes it look as if you don't want peace. Was that your intention?

I'm asking, because if I got that demand, my reply wouldn't have been so nice as SleepingMoogle's...

[Serdoa]

Well, I am certainly not good in diplomacy when it comes to talks about peace and stuff and it doesn't get better if I write that stuff at 12 in the night when my wife has told me already several times that I should go to bed

I do want peace but I do also want to let him bleed for taking up a fight completely unnecessary. I am still pissed that we talked about war plans only so that he changes them the first turn of the war. And even more, that he goes from a war ally to enemy within 1 turn and being not even able to explain me comprehensible why he does that.

But most importantly, away from feelings and stuff you only have to look at the demos: If I do not get some infusion peacefully, I won't be able to get up to scooters and SleepingMoogles level. And if I can't get up there, I certainly have to drag them down to my level

[Serdoa]

[COLOR="Pink"]SleepingMoogle,

I guess we won't find a peaceful solution but I want to give it a chance still. I understand fully the points you wrote down here and that you feel like you have lost already enough, but why on earth did you even decide in the first place to do that? You knowed my plans, you knowed that I have forces ready and you should have knowed from my dealings with Dazedroyalty that I simply don't accept it when somebody tries to interfere with my plans. You should also have knowed that TT won't be that much help with an already damaged empire. We could be neighbours by now, peacefully expanding and helping each other out. Instead you decided to make me your enemy. Now, if you want me to stay your enemy you are welcome to do so, but by now you should know what that means.

So, let me ask again: Are you willing to pay reparations, to be agreed upon, to the Austrian empire? I am open to discuss about the exact terms and if you are in principle willing I would like to here your ideas about them.

And before you decide, please take in mind that I do have only two ways to stay in the competition: Either by catching up to your and scooters level or by bringing you down to mine. I would rather not do the latter as I guess I can get only one down to my level and that would certainly make the game rather boring for us both.

Kind regards,
Serdoa
[/COLOR]

Better? I haven't sent it as I still hope for a dedicated lurker to help me - only I think I have none. Gah, well, maybe I have to ask scooter for help again

[zakalwe]

Looks good to me

I haven't spent so much time lurking lately, so you may consider that opinion only somewhat spoiled.

[MWIN]

what is your plan if simply rejects your proposal and also stops fighting while at war? TT is still between you two guys....Wouldn't peace with sleeping be easier to absorb TT and his little island?