Is that character a variant? (I just love getting asked that in channel.) - Charis

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[SPOILERS] Athlete and Lewwyn are SHAKA OF THE VIKINGS

So here are the 3 possible attack routes:

1) Send troops from Loki 1 SW and then 1NW. This leads to the jungle SE of Charity. I'll have to wait a turn in his territory on the jungle where the cats cat hit me. Possibly I send one wave onto the jungle first and absorb the collateral. Then have the cats bombard and send in a second fresh wave of troops to the same jungle tile. Then turn after sac and take the city.

2) I wait for engineering and send my troops NE, NE, NW to the grassland SE of diligence in one turn. His stack of cats CANNOT hit that tile from where they are. Alternatively, before engineering, I can move the attack force to 1 tile SW of Freya and then head to the same tile. I believe that tile is in the fog. Even more alternatively, I can sit my troops back on the hill and then go for the grassland tile. That's faster but shows my hand quicker.

3) Seven's getting astro in a turn. I gave him gold to speed the research. Now I can gift him my galleys and have him upgrade them into galleons. Load up some berzerkers and go raiding back line island cities. I think I will do this anyway in conjunction with one of the two previous plans.

Pros/Cons of plan 1?
Pros:
1) It's a deep strike into TRD's heart. Helps cut his empire in two.
2) I get my gems and spices back +2 happy in cities without a forge +3 in those with. currently the source of gems that is in my possession is being shipped to Seven for incense.
3) Of the two attacks, this one provides Jungle cover.
4) May force TRD to counter attack before he's really ready.
5) Can attack directly from Loki

Cons:
1) Cat stack is big. It'll do some heavy dmg and I might possibly take some heavy losses.
2) Charity is in the heart of TRD's land and exposed to counter attacks from all sides. Could easily lose the city again right away. And my army.

Plan 2?
Pros:
1) Whittles TRD's strength along the outside of his territory.
2) As long as the cat stack doesn't move I can land my troops next to diligence without worrying about collateral first turn.
3) Easily assimilated, not as easy for TRD's troops to surround or approach.
4) Possibly land on grassland tile out of the fog.

Cons:
1) Takes an extra turn or two to stage the attack.
2) Sitting on a grassland tile.
3) Difficult to reinforce because its further from Freya than Charity is to Loki.


So there is some serious decision making to be made. Charity attack looks more profitable but more risky. Diligence looks less risky, but slightly less profitable. I also have to consider speed here, and whether I want to time my attacks to coincide with naval attacks. I think the best would be if I got galleons and smashed Kindness (refer to naval feint pic) at the same time that I took on of these two cities. Kindness is too far from where the cats are to react to a surprise taking of the city. It would take TRD 2 turns to hit Kindness with those cats. In other words I could take Kindness and he would have to choose between counter attacking at either diligence or charity or retaking his back-line city. Indeed, if he choose to come back for Kindness I can move all my troops out of the city on the galleons and just retake it after he comes back for one of the other two. Hot potato style. This would work really well in conjunction with Diligence as he wouldn't be able to hit that stack with the cats that first turn. In any case my main force must heal a bit, and I still have to wait for galleons and the new zerkers that are being pumped out to fill the galleons. (That's right I'm not pulling troops from the main force for the naval strike :D )

Lurkers, I don't believe TRDs updated his thread in a while so you're probably not really spoiled in terms of his war plans or tactics. Opinions?
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Pretty sure it would be inappropriate for me to comment directly on the situation, if for no other reason than I certainly have read the other threads. (And let me say, I think this game is very interesting, on a very interesting map, but nobody knows anything about it, because only athlete and now you have updated threads.)

Broadly speaking however, from my somewhat limited-MP experience, taking and holding core cities is nigh-impossible. You'd nearly always have to raze and move on. Picking off fringe cities, however, can be quite profitable.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
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Lewwyn, I am probably not the right one to give you tips on that so I won't. But I would like to request a nice overview picture of the zone with Loki, Freya, Kindness, Diligence etc. and all the troops visible. I know thats some work, but it makes it so much easier to think for yourself about what to do and how.
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Nice, did you nudge Nakor to maybe update his thread a bit? lol

I sent Nakor a message because he's the only one I haven't diploed yet. I have no clue about where is allegiances are at this point, So I"m feeling him out. I do have the feeling he'll want to stay out of war though. Maybe I can convince him to help gang TRD. rolleye


Anyway yeah, Gaspar, that's what I was thinking. Originally I wanted to go for Charity, but man, I can feel the chill of death walking into the middle of that territory. Going after Diligence and Kindness in a fork is probably the best option. It actually even works out well too because I can have my troops move into the fog from Loki and feint a southern attack. Maybe with the help of Nakor? All I need to do is get Nakor to believe I'm coming south and have him "betray" me to TRD. When Nakor responds I'll post my message and his response.
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Ok, here's my message and his response:

Hey Nakor, I saw you updated your thread in PBEM 6. Glad I'm not the only one. I wanted to check in with you because we've never really exchanged diplo since I've taken over for Athlete.

I've had a conversation with TRD (in which he told me to attack him ). One with Ruff when the turn got a bit stalled. And a couple with Seven since I send him the turn after I play. But, I haven't had a dialogue with you, so I'm sending a msg to see what's up. Especially since we share a border now. I have that galley out by your islands that I hope isn't bothering you and a scout who has been dodging into TRD's south from yours.

I don't know how much you know about the war, but I've retaken my city from TRD, and I think I've hit a wall now. Can I trust you with a war plan that may involve your help?

Lewwyn King of Vikings

Response:

Hey Lewwyn,

Good to hear from you! Wanted to send you a message myself, but time is really an issue with 2 kids... and all the other interesting games.

I haven't heard a lot from TRD about the war, but I know there is a stalemate going on.

I'll be honest with you. TRD is my friend, so everything you tell me, I'll tell him. So for now, you're on your own in that war. Maybe in the future, when my deal with TRD expires, we can start working together, but for now that's not an option.

I can assure you that I won't help TRD is this war either. You two will have to fight it our yourselves.

Good luck!
Nakor

That's actually more than I hoped. I was actually very nervous about him joining the war. I would be able to handle it and rebuff and attacks, but I wouldn't be able to press forward and make some real gains like I wanted too.

I think I"ll ask him if he minds if my army uses his roads.
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Hmm I actually think you'd be better off going for charity. First of all you can get there faster, and that's definitely a plus. And you can defend on the jungle tile, which will help a lot. How many catapults does he have, anyway? I doubt he has enough to seriously threaten your stack with horse archers. And, after you take out charity, you'll have a river above it to help defend against any counterattacks. There's no roads to the west, so he can't counterattack from that direction very easily. It'll give you control of the spices and gems, and take away the city which you don't have vision of, but which can counter attack Loki at any time. Diligence has at least 1 crossbow, which won't be able to reinforce Charity fast enough if you attack there. On the other hand, he'll be able to reinforce Diligence with everything if he sees you moving there, and maybe even counterattack you while you're on the grassland square.

If he does attack you with catapults while you're on the jungle square, that's no problem. Just bring along a medic and you're full stack (minus whatever is necessary to defend Loki of course) and then you can heal while bombarding the defences. Also, you can use that 2-move GG to scout the city before you commit to the attack.
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LMAO got a scouting report from Seven:
Quote:NE of Charity I see his 3 HA 6 Cat, which you also saw.

In Charity is 1 Bowman 1 Cat (presumably produced this turn). Defense is 40%.

NW of Charity is 1 Cat (presumably en route from Chastity. Chastity has only a Bowman).

so basically he has a bowman and a cat in the city. We're talking 8 cats, 3 HAs and a bowman total...

I can move my main stack on the jungle tile, take the city and he will NOT have enough actual units to take it back even IF he sacs all his cats! 3 HAs and a bowman (which will die when I take the city). How can I pass that up? There's very little chance he'll be able to get enough units together to mount an attack, especially if I take out kindness the turn AFTER I land on the jungle.

So:
1) Move onto the jungle tile.
2) absorb and cat attacks.
3) Naval attack kindness and take it.
4) Take Charity.
5) Prepare tertiary attack force to take Diligence.

SO now given the recon by Seven, how is that plan? Of course it could change again if something new develops but for now.

Oh and TRD is teching, he's not builing gold to upgrade his bowmen. I need to strike fast. This last turn he was 1 turn from currency. So I believe he is attempting to stall while he techs up to equality. I have to move now. Taking charity would be a big blow as he'd lose happy resources from Loji's BFC. I'll keep my options open.

EDIT: Oh and just FYI, TRD only has 1 bowman in Chastity which is the next city west. In the south he has 2 bowmen. In kindness he has 1 bowman. YUM YUM YUM. Diligence is the most heavily defended. I could put some forces on the border like I'm going to hit Diligence to draw him off. Loving it.
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:That's great news then. Seems like you killed pretty much his whole military when you took Loki. No need to be fancy then, you can just fight him head on and win with brute strength.

I wouldn't worry too much about him teching. What's he going to do with currency, marketplace you to death?lol He probably just wants to get the trade route bonus before he goes pure wealth to upgrade his bowmen to crossbows.
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Wow... did you look at the power graphs to make sure there are not units hidden anywhere?
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Well if he's hiding units he's doing a darn good job. Sevens got his axe wondering around and he can see Chastity and Charity, I have vision on Diligence and Temperance?(the south city via scout (Rick Hanson) ). SO that leaves Kindness which had 1 bowman 2-3 turns ago last I checked, and the two islands off coast, though I'm not sure why anyone would keep units off coast if they feel I only have galleys and can see them coming.

I think his power graph readings (which are the lowest of all the players) are boosted by his 8 cats. And they are all well and fine, the issue with those cats is he has no actual units to back em up and do the dirty work of mopping up.

So yeah, I'm feeling pretty confident I dusted most of his 'actual' army. Hell the units I hit him with were almost ALL my units! You have no idea how strapped I am in back-line cities. 4! Count 4! have 0 military units in them. 3 of those are on the mainland, the 4th is the single island way out. Freya has an archer in it, my capital and second city on the island have 1 warrior each! So yeah. I believe that he just doesn't have units. The only reason I have any force is because I mad a tactical decision to abandon half the home cities in an effort to take out the 12 units in 'Sloth'. Basically I have to hit decisively when I do hit and I've got to maximize killing and chaos when I do. As soon as people other than Seven and I get Galleons, it will be chaos, but knowing what I know, I plan to reinforce the home front as soon as I wipe TRD off the mainland.
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