[SPOILER] Suryavarman II of Maya - Whosit & Ravus Sol

[mackoti]

And probaly needs 2 turns to get that money so from my point of view is realy worth, and youl get the city back there you get your work boat back,

[Whosit]

So... is that a vote for "yes, take the deal?" It will probably be a little while before I go to war with GE. And if the whole Plan goes off, not sure how Nakpar will want to divide the spoils.

[Mist]

Forget the 75g. Get him to exchange the WB for a worker. He'll get +3food, you'll get more workforce. Slightly in your favor and you're going to have netted city after you hit him

[mackoti]

Actualy i believe gold is more expensiv on this map then production.

[Whosit]

chatlog dump

kyanrbpb3: hey man
Sent at 4:44 PM on Tuesday
kyanrbpb3: and there was me thinking we were best buds :P
me: What?
kyanrbpb3: im messing was just saying hello
me: Oh.
I thought you were implying something for a second there.
kyanrbpb3: im british remember
sarcastic and full of wit :P
me: Had like 4 hours of sleep.
I'm a tad slow today.
kyanrbpb3: fair enough my friend
now would not be a good time to discuss pbem12 then i take it?
me: Naw, it's fine.
Just don't expect any insightful gems of wisdom out of me.
kyanrbpb3: never have :P
me: That's good.
kyanrbpb3: well, since the Gingereagle fiasco, it seems you're getting back on your feet
so well played there mate
got gardens rather fast too
not that im still miffed about that, oh no :P
me: Make sure you gift wrap that dagger before you put it in my back
kyanrbpb3: you think i'd attack you?
it's not me you want to watch out for
me: I make it my business to assume that anyone and everyone may attack me.
kyanrbpb3: ok, want a NAP?
you name the length
you are well aware of my thoughts on the things and more importantly, my thoughts on breaking them
perhaps if you trusted me not to attack you, we could go from there?hehe
we are as far from each other as its possible to get on this map
me: NAP is not necessary.
kyanrbpb3: figured as much
but consider the offer there and pending should you change your mind
Tredje has asked me for a NAP
me: Hmm.
kyanrbpb3: which i have signed
his GNP is good enough to have Cata's any turn now
if he hasnt already (altho i havent seen any)
me: I'd be surprised if he didn't have them.
kyanrbpb3: cataphracts obviously, not catapults :P
me: oh
dur
kyanrbpb3: byz
me: Yeah, he'll probably stomp my face in or something.
kyanrbpb3: sorry. i used the wrong abrbeviations
in exchange for the NAP, i had to promise not to gift units to someone he was at war with
to be honest, i dont want to be building even more pikemen so i kinda bit his hand off
but i am happy to gift any spare resources you dont already have, perhaps help with gold gifting?
as well as intel etc
me: That would be awfully kind of you.
Except... not really.
kyanrbpb3: yeah
its kinda useless
but its kinda all i got
me: Well, I also meant enlightened self-interest.
Since the longer the longer Tredje fights, the better off you are.
kyanrbpb3: ?
agreed
but that doesnt mean it doesnt help you?
pragmatic
me: Oh, it would help me.
I'm just saying... not simply from the kindness of your heart.
Not that I'm complaining
kyanrbpb3: never claimed it at all
me: I just like to point such things out.
kyanrbpb3: im playing to win
but i like to have an ally or two if possible
aka. pitboss 3
right now, i got nobody
you want the no bullshit, no bells and whistles version?
me: Sure.
kyanrbpb3: ok.
you wont win this game now
you're fucked thanks to GE
unless i get friends, i wont win either
Tredje and Nakor/Gaspar are busy cuddling up
i am confident on out-playing either one but both together would be too much
Malakai has only 5 cities and is therefore irrelevant
GE is insane
they could easily be persuaded into a dogpile
at which point, my only hope is to stay alive long enough for Nakor to pull his usual tricks and hope the alliance falls apart
i figure if you cant win, what are you playing for?
well, you gotta be pretty pissed with GE
i have a nice border with him myself
me: My goal is to pretty much wipe him out.
kyanrbpb3: i'm more than happy to join in and let you keep the majority of the land
(addendum: not in the immediate future)
i.e. im not ready right now to go to war
but if you wanted a joint strike
we'll share screenshots or maps
you can lead the offensive
and i'll more than pull my weight
at least equalling your contribution in units
im shit at war
i'm happy to do what im told and let you direct things on that front
me: Ha.
right, 'cuz I'm such a masterful general.
kyanrbpb3: better than me
and you know it
me: I suppose.
kyanrbpb3: all i can do is play happy economies
in pbem4, im at infantry whilst the others have knights. ive still only managed to kill 1 person
and thats against greens
so... yeah
me: Hm.
kyanrbpb3: i know you probly dont want to commit to anything
but at this point, im near enough willing to listen to anything you have to say
open borders? (we have trade routes) NAPs? joint invasions? allies?
hell, i'd take it as great news if you just gave me the word you wouldn't jump in a dogpile against me
or at least just read thru the usual nakor bullshit
me: one sec
kyanrbpb3: sure
gonna grab me some lemon meringue so ill brb too
Sent at 5:06 PM on Tuesday
kyanrbpb3: back
me: still on phone
kyanrbpb3: take your time
Sent at 5:08 PM on Tuesday
me: Um, ok, let's see.
Well, I suppose this all will really depend on what Tredje does.
He'll be ready to attack someone before I'm ready to attack GE.
I don't know who he exactly borders.
Malakai should be easier meat than me.
But who knows.
kyanrbpb3: me and nakor/gaspar mostly
me: I've got a bit of a border with him, as well.
kyanrbpb3: everyone should border everyone else eventually
me: I suppose that's true.
kyanrbpb3: tho us two seem to not be very close yet
i have developed borders with nakor, tredje and GE
me: Same.
kyanrbpb3: explains why we dont share one yet then i guess
went in the other directions first
me: Seems so.
kyanrbpb3: but yeah, cards on the table. thats my faults
dont get me wrong, i dont want to attack GE
right now, i'd much rather sit and have peace
it would help me far more as a civ to develop my huge square more than muck about in other peoples
maintenance costs are too high for such things
me: Well, that's also why I didn't go back to war with GE, myself.
I know I can at least outpace him
kyanrbpb3: hence why i said you could have majority of the land- doubt i could afford it :P
definitely. i'd say you're a solid 4th place as it stands
set back massively by GE
much ahead of him and malakai but quite a bit behind the other 3
me: Pretty much.
kyanrbpb3: but i was basically just trying to think of ways or commitments/gestures i could make
to get you on board
missionaries?
fast workers?
Sent at 5:17 PM on Tuesday
kyanrbpb3: right now, would open borders not help you just as much as me?
i've enough cities to near enough give you foreign trade routes in every one of yours :P
Sent at 5:18 PM on Tuesday
me: I suppose you do.
Though I've already filled that quota.
kyanrbpb3: fair enough. been seduced by a heathen religion yet?
me: Nope.
Not really interested in any since you alls got your shrines
kyanrbpb3: though, that does make me wonder who you do have open borders with to have enough routes. hmm, must check ingame
me: Yeah. I figured that wasn't a secret.
kyanrbpb3: nakor?
hmm, unwilling to discuss an NAP and has open borders with the guys im scared of instigating a dogpile on me...
why am i getting that feeling im already too late for this conversation? lol
me: You know that I don't sign NAPs.
Well, I guess I did sign one with Tredje.
But that runs out soon.
kyanrbpb3: any particular reason you are willing to agree deals with Tredje and not myself?
his GNP > mine, we alternate first place in score. 'Cept he has 'phracts or will do soon and is financial whilst im not...
he's ahead of me in tech and has been all game (for proof, he has paper which can be checked ingame)
me: It was mainly because I didn't feel like haggling with him at the time since I made a semi-aggressive settlement.
kyanrbpb3: ah right
fair enough
me: I don't have a NAP with anyone else.
And I got a trade connection with Gaspar the earliest.
kyanrbpb3: Gaspar and his team mate
me: Right. Nakor.
kyanrbpb3: yup, its no one man show over there
be straight with me, if the world divides in two
i know you won't be on my side, but will you be on theirs or will you remain neutral?
me: I'll join whoever gives me the best shot at GE.
kyanrbpb3: ok, well, once i know im safe from attack
ill help you kill him
that's the most firm commitment i can make at this time
me: That's fine.
I
kyanrbpb3: as for religion, yup i got a shrine
me: I'm not going to set anything in stone, myself.
kyanrbpb3: as does tredje and so will nakor shortly
so, you can either a) go no religion which is suboptimal and we both know it, b) found islam or c) cut a deal
i'd be willing to give you half of all shrine income i get from your cities
me: I will weigh my options.
kyanrbpb3: fair enough, i dont think i can be much more fair than that
you have 10 cities with buddhism, i'd give you 5g per turn /shrug
so you get a semi-shrine
me: Yeah. It's a fair deal.
I just don't want to agree to anything right now.
Maybe after I sleep.
kyanrbpb3: fair enough
give it some thought
if you provided an escort and opened borders, i'd be willing to send a couple of fast workers to come play also
me: tempting.
kyanrbpb3: they remain fast workers when traded
as i see it, you wouldnt have any direct loss yourself. you'd gain fast workers, i'd gain trade routes
tredje and Nakor/gaspar wont open borders with me for obvious reasons
malakai is playing a no settlers variant i think :P
Sent at 5:33 PM on Tuesday
me: Yeah, not sure what's up with him.
kyanrbpb3: he's chatty enough
ironically, he's one of the better players in the pbem4 game
dont know whats gone wrong here
me: shrugs
Anyway, I'm gonna take off for now.
I will think about this and get back to you.

Too tired to really make good analysis. This is why I need someone for stabilization, as I tend to waver diplomatically. I'm not awfully interested in helping Kyan win. Don't want to make an enemy of him, either. Not yet, since he may be able to help me if/when Tredje comes for me. I need Engineering....

[fire&ice]

Off topic

Whosit 152
Rowain 24
Ravus Sol 22

Shouldn't this tread be Whosit & rowain :neenernee Ravus when the players are being beaten by a lurker in post count, you know somthing has gone wrong.

[Rowain]

IIRC Ravus had problems and to bow (more or less) out. Besides it is not the quantity but the quality

@Whosit
The religion deal does sound nice but perhaps others have also a thing or two to offer.
Engineering (and good luck) is a must if Byzantine comes knocking. Perhaps an elongation of the NAP with Tredje seems in order.

[Whosit]

Right, so I should probably try to be posting stuff.

So, a couple days after that chat with Kyan, he writes back claiming that I passed that along to Gaspar/Nakor, a claim which, as far as I know, is false. I don't remember even mentioning the conversation to them. So, either I have very specific amnesia, Gaspar/Nakor made a very good guess at the right time, or something else odd is going on. I'm not entirely sure what G/N has told Kyan, and I haven't asked them because I don't really want to acknowledge that I was talking to Kyan. It's all very messy and confusing.

It's also hard to tell if any kind of dogpile vs. Kyan is gonna happen, as G/N have appeared to be rather wishy-washy. Since I'm not going to win anyway, I'm not going to throw myself at Kyan. I just want to take out GE before the game ends. Hence why I liked that convoluted plan to get other people to fight Kyan. The real key is Tredje, but I haven't really talked to him much. I suppose I should give him a buzz instead of relying on G/N to negotiate. It doesn't seem like they're getting anywhere, but they are building up their military....

Trying to get some more towns built. Ran into Malakai to my east. Since that's the direction I hadn't focused on, he's gotten a little further out than I would have liked.

Oh... hey, forgot I was writing this.

Um... So, yeah, I should get some pictures uploaded, but I'm still feeling lazy. Sorry all. Sometime in the next couple of days, I swear.

For the time being, I guess I just want to avoid getting stomped by Tredje, which should give me a window to hit GE? I dunno. That's kind of like a plan. I should get a bit more active in diplo, but so tired all the time....

[Whosit]

Alright, this'll be like... I don't know. I have no idea what I am doing at this point, really~. Probably just gonna try to stir up some trouble and hopefully curb-stomp GE before Kyan wins. Speaking of, I shot Kyan another e-mail since I haven't heard from him for a while. For reasons I cannot explain, he seems to take me at my word that I didn't spill to Gaspar/Nakor. Now, I mean, I didn't (as far as I know), but I don't know if I would be so trusting in his position. And, of course, walking a delicate line since I am hoping to put him in someone's cross-hairs, but, uh... I won't tell him that. Nothing personal, man, but you ARE #1 and running away with things.

Trying to open up dialogue with Tredje. As expected, he's hesitant to share his plans with me. I gave him some assurances that I'll keep things between us, but in a fit of honesty, I told him that if he tells me anything that affects my national security, I'll act on it. Shouldn't be a deal-breaker, but we'll see. Mainly, I'm curious to see what Tredje plans to do about Kyan... see if it's something I can facilitate or not.

Rumors that there may be war between me and GE again. I've got a few Macemen popped, and with Engineering done, a few Pikemen and Trebuchets are in order. Will have to cut back on tech to get more units out, since my hammer cities have been building wealth to fuel my tech pace. Anyone know of a better way...? Anyway, I got the EP to see GE's research, so that will be a nice little advantage. He's a few turns from HBR. Unless he has Guilds already (unlikely), nothing to worry about at the moment. Some guys have Alphabet, there's that.

Trying to make a run for Islam to avoid having to adopt someone else's religion. Hopefully no one tries to beat me to it. It'll still be.... many turns, as I'll have to start saving up cash again.

Kyan chat:

Kyan: hey dude
me: Hey.
Got your e-mail.
Kyan: cool
sorry Al. I should have asked you before jumping to conclusions
and then ref sent his stupid mis-message and i forgot to message you back in the end
me: Well, thanks.
Of course, I wouldn't be me if I didn't say that there's no reason you should take me at my word.
Because I love to say things that aren't in my best interest.
Kyan: you gave me your word. so yeah i believe you
that my prove stupid after the game, but i guess im that kinda guy lol
me: Well, I'll feel silly if it turns out I somehow DID tell them and forgot about it.
But I did check my out-box at the time.
Kyan: well, there is an alternative theory, related to the mis-messgae you received, but i would rather that not get publicized in-thread or anywhere else
me: Right.
It's also possible that it could be been an interestingly timed coincidence. We'll see.
Kyan: indeed
it definitely could have been
i had to offer an NAP to GE
as he got rather upset
nakor told him i was plotting to attack him
me: Hm.
Kyan: which i wasnt
until i spoke to you lol
me: And I keep hearing rumors that GE is planning to come for me.
Kyan: if i were you, i wouldnt be worried
me: I'm not especially.
I outtech him.
But if he attacks, I'm not sure from which direction.
Kyan: yeah, you're catching up frustratingly quickly :P
me: Oh, yeah, the gap is only, what, 20 techs now instead of 30?
Kyan: i can guarantee it wont be thru my land if that helps
half that, at best
me: Well, we kind of have borders to both my north and south.
Kyan: true but cant you stick some sentry units out?
with these trees, nothing moves fast
me: I suppose.
Kyan: at best, the fastest movers are HA
he wont have knights
me: It would still be a lot of units I don't want to build now, but I'm going to at least get some defense in my border cities.
He's working on Horseback Riding now.
Kyan: he doesnt have CS
me: I have Pikemen. So.
Kyan: lol yeah
brb
me: 'K
Kyan: ok back
but im probly gonna shoot
ping me an email if you want any kind of trade etc.
me: Alright.
I'll review what we were talking about.
Kyan: cool man. Take care
me: You, too.

Oh, an' pictures, at last:

Capital area:



Eastern region:



Northwest:



Southwest:



GE has borders to the south, and to the north. If he does attack, I'm not sure from which direction he'll come. I'll have to get some units on both sides, and maybe have some fast-responders in the middle-ish. Honestly, I should probably build up for a little offensive action myself. Better to be on the attack, I think.

Current city list:



Demographics:



Units:



I'm feeling really stretched out militarily, but as I said, most cities have been on wealth if they have nothing else to build. Oh, and popped Gold at one of my big hammer cities, which is nice, but I already have gold and that means one less hammer, so meh. Gems or Silver would have been better, or a metal, even.

I don't know if I'll wait for Knights or not, but I think a team of Macemen, Pikemen, Trebs/Cats, and a few Crossbowmen should be able to at least burn a city or two of GE's if I strike out. Not looking to capture territory. Just watch it burn. But, no concrete plans at the moment.

[Rowain]

Thanks for the update At least 2 people are worse in the important categories

The GNP (1/3 rd of the leader) is a bit depressing.