RB PBEM #1 - Gandhi [spoilers]

[Ruff_Hi]

For those thinking about the gold = beaker question, here are the numbers from the end of T64 ...

100% science yielded 5g, 60b
0% science yielded 50g, 7b
My expenses are 13 gold per turn.

So, trading 45g yielded 53b for a civ wide commerce to beaker ratio of 1.178.

I don't get an optional requirement benefit but I would value from Dreylin knowning the tech. Thus, 350 Dreylin beakers (in CS) are only 327 beakers (350 / (1 + 0.3 * 1/4) - the 0.3 * .25 is rounded down to 0.07).

Using my 1.178 factor ... the 327 beakers would be 278 gold.

Hmm - that sounds too high.

350 beakers at 60bpt would be 5.45 turns (350 / 60 / 1.07). In 5.45 turns, I can generate 201 gold (clearing 37 gold per turn).

Note: Tech understanding from http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy...search.php

[ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF]

By my understanding, you are included in # of civs alive, and there is a 20% bonus for merely having enough prerequisites to research the tech, so the bonus is at least 1.2 for all techs except the starting techs.

What that means for your calculation:
350 Dreylin beakers = 350/(1+0.3*1/5)/1.2 = 350/(1.06*1.2) = 275 beakers

Note that you need to use the number of in-game quick speed beakers, as normal-speed beakers are somewhat useless as a calculating aid.

275 / 1.178 = 233.5 gold (it will be less when you use quick speed numbers)

Also a note on your other calculation, in 5.45 turns, you can generate 201 gold and 38 beakers

[Ruff_Hi]

you are right. I looked up the beaker conversion factor ...

Guilds 1000 normal beakers = 884 in-game beakers
Civil Service 800 = 707
Theology 500 = 442
Code of Laws 350 = 309

So, 350 normal = 309 in-game beakers = 309 / 1.06 / 1.2 / 1.178 = 206 gold

Or 309 beakers will take 4.05 [309 / (60*1.06*1.2)] turns (ignoring the 7bpt) or 150g.

So it sounds like the price should be somewhere between 150g and 200g.

[ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF]

Of course, there are a couple more things to consider:

By trading CS to you, Dreylin keeps his monopoly of it as a tradable tech, so he can wait for other civs to be able to pay his price. If you threaten to research it, and thus compel him to accept inferior deals for it (due to others possibly not having enough to trade for it), or else risk you trading it instead of him, he will probably look more favourably on any deal you suggest.

I also have one more peeve about your calculations (sorry!). Researching for 4.05 turns at 60bpt will run a gold deficit, right? Wouldn't it be better to use your sustainable rate?

Oh, and btw, England are going to win the Ashes

[Ruff_Hi]

I also have one more peeve about your calculations (sorry!). Researching for 4.05 turns at 60bpt will run a gold deficit, right? Wouldn't it be better to use your sustainable rate?

I thought of that but I can afford a negative research rate at present

Oh, and btw, England are going to win the Ashes

want to have a bet? gold to be settled in the pitboss game.

[Ruff_Hi]

I also picked up Iron Working from Athlete and execute the IOU beaker trade with Dreylin. Maybe that wasn't a hot move now that we are talking gold instead of beakers. Anyway, I didn't get a 'iron discovered' message to I cracked open the game to see what was happening ... surely, I have iron somewhere.

WELL!!!

Remember this post (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=120)? Remember the total lack of comments from Sullla. Take a frecken look at this (strategic resources indicators turned on) ...



YES! That is iron nicely tucked up against my pre-calendar happy resource (gold). Both resources that I cannot access. My only hope is that 1 of those 3 foggy tiles in the South (yellow circle) have iron. The red tile is a copper but the icon doesn't show.

I really feel like pulling a huge Krill here and launching a internet wide complaint about the map :grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:

[Broker33]

want to have a bet? gold to be settled in the pitboss game.

Sure I bet 100 gold we meet in the pitboss game....we meet you give me 100 gold

[sunrise089]

Sure I bet 100 gold we meet in the pitboss game....we meet you give me 100 gold

I'm going to have to break out the hose on you two if you don't stop with the pre-contact details

Re: Iron - I can't imagine Sullla would actually go for this, but if he did intend for you to be able to access the iron+gold maybe a "volcano eruption" could make a land tile rise from the sea to allow access...

[Ruff_Hi]

chat with Dreylin ...

me: sorry - internet died on my
me
Andy: np
150g does sound good
but I'd lik to see some of the calculations / behind the numbers
Sent at 4:01 PM on Tuesday
me: did you get any of that that I sent?
Andy: I got three estimates
me: 350g = 309 in-game beakers
Andy: about 340mins apart each
30
me: I can generate 309 in-game beakers in 4.05 turns
4.05 turns @ 0% science is 150g
that was my calculations
Andy: But those beakers generated are tech-dependant, right?
with pre-reqs, etc.
me: yes
Sent at 4:04 PM on Tuesday
Andy: and expenses
(or is the 309 in 4t at break-even?)
me: 309 in 4t at 100%
which I can still do for another 8 turns before having to dial down
gee - no slipping anything past you, is there?
Andy: Surely that's what you want in an ally.
Sent at 4:08 PM on Tuesday
Andy: But your rate will change as you settle more cities, and is not even necessarily comparable to mine....
me: totally not compariable to yours
you should work out the same based on your situation and then will give us 2 numbers
Andy: (Argh)
me: how much I want to pay
how much you want to get
then we haggle
Andy: Aren't we doingthat already!?
me: well - haven't heard your number yet
Andy: Can't do that until thisevening....
~3hrs
me: [hand cupped behind ear ...]
oh - and I found my iron
after trading with Athlete
Andy: Nice & close?
me: yes - very close
Andy: or as awkward as you Pre-Calendar happy?
me: and well protected too
Andy: Nice
Similar to my Horses
me: yeah
Andy: So you're going for the AP
assume Christianity,right?
me: are you going to swap that 150b IOU (from Athlete) into gold too?
I really should have thought to convert that to gold my self
Andy: not planning any "I win the game" hi-jinks, I hope
me: AP - nice for the hammers
Andy: Actually, I converted it into Sailing
me: and fun with the diplo too
now I just need to trick someone into voting me to victory
[oops - did I say that out loud]
Andy: Hmmmmmm
So Christianity, or one of mine?
me: Christianity - well, it depends if you can get a religion to my capital
Andy: Of course i /can/
but maybe not on your timline
me: but prob not soon enough
given that you cannot even build missionaries yet!!!
Andy: I could
if I built a Monastery first
(but that's not worthwhile until I'm in OrgRel anyway)
Oh, you proposed the CoL/Calendar trade, right?
me: yes - who builds buildings when not running OrgRel - total waste of hammers
I did
Andy: Excellent
me: should be waiting in-game for you
Andy: Do we have trade routes yet?
me: no idea
maybe now that your E city has popped a border and includes the riber
river
and stolen one of my tiles (
Andy: Should do now I have Sailing, right?
Yeah sorry about that
not much I can do
Sent at 4:19 PM on Tuesday
me: nope
I just have to cross my fingers that Christianity goes into DV
would totally rock!
Andy: Don't you go stealing my tiles now!

Sent at 4:22 PM on Tuesday
me: I'll wait until you put a gottage on it
Andy: It's a plains tile isn't it?
that I can't work
(Not Templars overhere)
me: ok - then put a watermill on it
Andy: Hmmmmm
OK
me: don't worry about
Andy: Once RP comes in
me: don't have to wait that long
mechary - +1F,+1H (IIRC)
Andy: Oh yeah

[Ruff_Hi]

I'm going to have to break out the hose on you two if you don't stop with the pre-contact details

I have no idea what you are talking about

Re: Iron - I can't imagine Sullla would actually go for this, but if he did intend for you to be able to access the iron+gold maybe a "volcano eruption" could make a land tile rise from the sea to allow access...

I am 99.9% sure that you cannot do this in a pbem game. That said, I've lost 99.9% battles in the past. I just have to wave that gold and iron goodbye. The hut will be popped in 75 turns or so.