Our Strategy....You Probably Haven't Heard of It

[oledavy]

I think you can worldbuilder to get the right answer.

I could. However, I simply don't have the time to create and run through two side-by-side worldbuilder games. It's just too massive of an undertaking for my current schedule. Besides, I'm not even sure we could even ever hope to recreate the situation we face in game and account for all the possible variables. I remember Spaceman joking to Novice in their PBEM17 thread that he should create a sim where they build the GLH, and one where they did not, and see how the game played out from there . That is the situation here I think.

That doesn't mean it can't work, just means I don't think anyone has any experience to call on.

Seems to be the case.

Are you sure? It could very well be the possibility that they haven't thought about it, just like none of us did until I brought up rushing banned wonders.

You do realize these are the guys who tried to build the MoM I feel pretty sure if it's unbanned, they're planning on building it. It's already a ridiculously powerful wonder made more so by the team setting.

Perhaps we're thinking about this too much as "it's either one path or the other". None of the benefits of Assembly Line really require on us getting there quickly (or more accurately, we don't have a chance at things that do even if we beeline them), so those Factories can wait. Cristo can wait only if Team 1 do not realize it hasn't been banned, which is possible but considering the power if the wonder I don't think we can afford to guess wrong. Because of that, I'm leaning towards Radio again. Not because its superior to Assembly Line (that I don't know), but because AL doesn't require a rush whereas Cristo probably will.

....

I am a bit worried that Team 1 could make a push for tanks or some other unit in the meantime, however Artillery and/or Flight would give us everything we need to defend for a long time. We don't have to grab those right away, but we should definitely keep it around as an option.

There is a huge opportunity cost to delaying Assembly Line. Every turn we go without it is a turn we lack 25%-75% production modifiers in our cities, and that can really add up over the thirty something turn delay we're entertaining between Team #1's first factory and our first factory. Not to mention lacking infantry...

You've also hit on the other huge drawback - beelining radio puts us eons away from Industrialism. While we can always research artillery for Anti-Tanks as a counter if Team #1 does so, we're talking about lacking a serious offensive unit for quite some time. You just don't get very far with rifles in an age of infantry.

The big advantage we would have going the Kremlin + CR is in terms of hammers invested into infrastructure. The economy model we're discussing does not require that much of a setup to implement. We need the two wonders (with the CR being rushed and costing us no hammers), and tons of workshops. The only direct cost is in worker turns to setup the workshop/watermill spam. After that, it's just all about switching civics and whipping in an intelligent manner. The drawback here is that our newer cities on a whip/draft cycle will generally be smaller and working less tiles than their Indian/Mongolian/English counterparts. We'll also be dealing with more unhappiness, though, this will be mitigated somewhat by landing Broadway and Rock n' Roll (especially since we're about to lose whales). These normally meh wonders have a really nice synergy with this economic strategy that is sure to incur some additional unhappiness.

The drawback to building factories + coal plants everywhere is twofold. For one, it is a massive infrastructure investment to get the economy up and running. We're talking in the neighborhood of ~250 hammers to get the factory and power plant in place. At that, you have to deal with massive increases in unhealthines. Iirc, it is 7 unhealthiness if you have oil.

Of course, the big question is whether or not the CR + Kremlin strategy produces a like number of hammers in the end.

Cue Luddite hitting the nail on the head:

I don't think there's a simple answer for this. It'll depend on what kind of terrain you have, how many developed cottages you have, how much health you have, and how much you value production vs. tech for the near future.

I was hoping someone out there might have a foggy idea. However, Luddite probably has it pegged right. There is no simple answer. I'm thinking more and more the only way we could possibly test this idea out is by doing.

It would keep them unbalanced by showing them that they don't know everything.

I'm pretty sure we would just get a few Sulla patented weed smileys.

That being said, after participating in this discussion, I say we go for it There's an excellent chance we fail spectacularly. However, let it be said we tried something new and thought outside the box. We are the Real Men of Genius after all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8gUojXK7...ure=relmfu

Let's beeline Radio and see what happens.

Of course, all of this presumes Team #2 does not win the game in the next 20 turns.

Here's to dining in Beijing come Turn 193!

[waterbat]

you guys are feisty rodents!

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Operation: ARMAGEDDON[/SIZE]

Update

We launch the invasion on t187, assuming Lewwyn regains control of the other two tiles between Marlo and Macau. If he does not, we can delay a turn. This timeline will allow us to hit Beijing on t192. Everything needs to be staged on the tile behind Marlo on t186.

Here are our current armed forces. WK has already ended turn while Shoot and I have not, so it's not quite accurate, but should give you a general idea of our power.




Thats 1.3 million soldiers if anyone is counting (1,314,000 to be exact).

I think we're going to be able to hit our target number of 150 units for the invasion. We have a lot finishing up in the next few turns that should be able to reach the forward base in time for the invasion. As thing stand, a little over a hundred of those units are slated for the invasion.

@Shoot & WK, I feel like we need more rifles if you two can squeeze a few more out - our stack is looking a little light on hitters. That being said, don't do it if it comes at the expense of our machine guns.

[Commodore]

So is it litterally an all-in? How many of those forces are slated to shred through China?

[oledavy]

So is it litterally an all-in? How many of those forces are slated to shred through China?

I'm not completely sure to be honest, there are so many units all over the place. I can give you an approximate number though:

~6 longbows
2 praetorians
2 macemen
~15 pikemen
4 knights
2 horse archers
~4 catapults
~35 cannon
~15 musketmen
29 musketeers
~30 riflemen

So, we have around 144 units slated for the invasion already

...that's actually the first time I've added them up, didn't want to count chickens and all that. I didn't know we have already almost reached our target

We're looking to finish and deploy somewhere between 30-40 more units in the final turns before the invasion: machine guns, cannon, rifles and knights. I'm going to tentatively predict we'll be fielding an army of 180 units by the tile t186 rolls around.

[Shoot the Moon]

Fuck, wound up 200 beakers short of Railroad Built a couple of macemen on accident because of it too.

The one good thing I guess is that we have enough gold saved up for WK not to have to end turn first next time. Who do we want to research RR, Dave or me? Dave, have you micro'd to overflow into MGs or anything like that? I have some worker turns that would be wasted by me having to be the one to research RR next turn but could live with just putting maces in build queues instead of MGs and having them get changed to MGs when I end turn. You have more workers than me, although obviously mine are more important in terms of being nearer where we need to railroad. Thoughts?

[Shoot the Moon]

By which I actually mean I hadn't noticed Dave hadn't ended turn already Oh well, only cost me building two macemen, not the end of the world -- I can actually use those for HR units I need in Bird to free up some Rifles currently doing that duty.

In regards to a couple more rifles, WK do you want to cover that? I figure it would be more effective for me to build the necessary MGs and you the couple more rifles so that we get the AGG bonus on those rifles.

[AutomatedTeller]

That messed me up for the longest time in my SP games. I couldnt' figure out why my horses only went 10 tiles. I tried building roads under the rails, everything...

[oledavy]

I needed you to end turn first so my seven maces in queue would upgrade into machine guns. Sorry I did not alert you to this, I thought you were aware.

At any rate, I'm glad the maces are not gong to waste.

How are you on workers? Will you be able to get all the railroads built that you need to in order to move units into Marlo for the assault?

@Shoot & WK - At this point, with only six turns to go, we need to focus on micro-ing unit movement in light of ongoing railroad construction to ensure we get every last unit possible into position on time.

I haven't checked the math, but I think we'll be able able to two-turn combustion next

As a side note, and this may fall into the category of counting chickens, but we need to start developing a military and economic plan for the aftermath of the presumed fall of Beijing. I don't want us to get into the heart of Chinese territory, and then not know what to do next. In short, we need to start planning follow-up offensives to mop up China's remaining cities, and for that, we'll need more military. We'll need workers to integrate our new conquests into the empire. Lastly, we'll need to figure out what to do about Team #2's India.

I'll post up some more thoughts later.

[WarriorKnight]

More Rifles? Well I can switch back into Nationhood after the GA I do a last minute draft, and I can build 3 Rifles per turn in my main production cities (although originally they were slated for MG builds). I'll probably do a mixture of MG/Rifles, although if you can reach 20 MG's without my help then I'll switch back to Rifles.

Do we really need more military to finish off China? If Leewyn really does defend Beijing to the death he won't have too much left, and with Jannies being his best unit I expect we'll just be more or less cleaning up. If he abandons Beijing (not likely but still, we have a lot of units and they have a lot of Artists), it'll be a bit rougher.

Most of my workers are on RR duty, I'll keep individual unit movements in mind as I'm building the RR.