[SPOILERS]A new adventure of Vanrober always guided by chumchu

[chumchu]

In reverse order: I prefer using the thread so that other lurkers can see our discussions and decision making.

About microplan: - As we start with a scout I would make a warrior instead of a scout. Even if there are no barbs we might run into another player. Having a settler and 2 workers but no warrior seems like an unnecessary risk.
- If we are not going to slave out the settler then why revolt to slavery early? We could do it while it is moving instead.
- If you are not going to improve the cows you can delay animal husbandry until after wheel. However, it is a strong tile for imperialists like us. You can go AH first and improve directly after the first camp.

Please send me a turn 0 and a turn 28 save of your sim then.

A save at the end of every turn is a bit more than I have the time for atm. However if you give me the password when the game is going I can log in and have a look whenever it is necessary.

[vanrober]

I saw that risk but being a larger map, i thought it would be fine. But yeah a warrior is a good option.

I will improve the cows, for sure, the thing is that getting 2 workers first and just a cow to improve makes BW a better starting tech i believe, since we could chop so many tiles.

The thing im not sure about is if we should try to conect our cities ASAP or it would be better to keep the improvements of tiles with AH.

I am going to sim AH first and just 1 worker, but i think that is worse.

Here is turn 0 and in a few min i will post the save of the turn 28 if every way i try.

Edit: deleted the link

And, be sure i will post here the pasword and you are welcome to entry on game as much as you want. I just dont know which will be the naming theme and what the pass will be

[vanrober]

Here it is updated the turn 0 deleting a forest that was mistaken.

I uploaded 4 turn 30. 
Option1: The micro i posted before going 2 workers, and Mining>BW>AH
Option2: doble worker and mining>BW>Wheel
Option3: AH>mining>BW, we take second city on turn 25 but just one worker and no BW.
Option4: AH>Wheel>mining>BW we take second city on turn 25 and conected on turn 26 to make the trait of Pro worther from soon. Not sure if its worth not having BW till turn 34.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QRHOEAG...sp=sharing

[chumchu]

I have looked at the sims now and tried my own variation with AH first where I made a three pop settler. The big problem with going AH first is that after improving the deer, deer, cow and ivory there is nothing for the worker to do unless we discover horses or another resource in city two. BW first feels safer. It is bummer not to use plains cow though as it is an amazing tile for IMP.

This start has crazy foodhammers and the limiting factor is commerce. One way to get the trade routes going instantly is to plant the second city on the same river. NW of cows looks good for that as it shares deer and cow. North of sugar north of deer also gets those resources. The sooner we get such a city the better. The 4 income from trade outstrips the 2 cost of maintenance.

Also. The sim was standard size. I thought real map was large. I met some AIs. which might speed up research as well. So the Sim is not entirely certain.

[vanrober]

superdeath




This should help everyone with their sims. If they chose to make one.

I thought standard was correct. I put so many AI on a standard map, obv we knew people.


I will edit map to lock the civs without ground to work and then they wont expand.

I have the same feeling with going AH first, we have nothing to do with the workers. But making BW first let them chop at least. So do you feel is fine the double worker? Or you think its better a 3 pop settler instead?

[chumchu]

You are right about standard. I was confused. It is a 52/52 Toroid for calculation of distance maintenance.

It is not wrong to put in the AI:s as we might just as well run into other players. It just means that our tech pace can not be exactly calculated.

The goal should be to work as many of the good tiles as fast as possible to build/tech as much as possible.
- A new city gives us a pop, a city center tile and trade routes if placed correctly. It costs us time where we could have grown the capitol.
- The second worker cost us time where we could have built the settler or grown the capitol. It gains us chops and worker improvements. We do not seem to be that limited by worker improvements so it will mostly be about the chops. A worker that chops into IMP settlers is quite efficient, getting the hammers back with 2 chops.If we can get the second city faster then I have a slight preference for 1 worker opening. Then we can build worker 2 after the first city is out.

Here are my sims of a worker, warrior, settler, worker opening. We get the first city to pop 3 turn 31 and the second city to pop 2 turn 30. The plan is to get the third worker in the second city and the second settler in the first city after it grows to pop 3. This nets us a bit more commerce since we work the ivory and get trade routes going turn 25. I also mined the stone as that will be a great tile for settler builds. If we want to go into a slavery the capitol will grow turn 32. After we lay down city 2 we can do 1 turn on 50% research without rounding losses and then do 100%. AH is in turn 32.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fdv1x9c80q3ns...dSave?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dff3k8bufop8b...dSave?dl=0

[vanrober]

You are right about standard. I was confused. It is a 52/52 Toroid for calculation of distance maintenance.

It is not wrong to put in the AI:s as we might just as well run into other players. It just means that our tech pace can not be exactly calculated.

The goal should be to work as many of the good tiles as fast as possible to build/tech as much as possible.
- A new city gives us a pop, a city center tile and trade routes if placed correctly. It costs us time where we could have grown the capitol.
- The second worker cost us time where we could have built the settler or grown the capitol. It gains us chops and worker improvements. We do not seem to be that limited by worker improvements so it will mostly be about the chops. A worker that chops into IMP settlers is quite efficient, getting the hammers back with 2 chops.If we can get the second city faster then I have a slight preference for 1 worker opening. Then we can build worker 2 after the first city is out.

Here are my sims of a worker, warrior, settler, worker opening. We get the first city to pop 3 turn 31 and the second city to pop 2 turn 30. The plan is to get the third worker in the second city and the second settler in the first city after it grows to pop 3. This nets us a bit more commerce since we work the ivory and get trade routes going turn 25. I also mined the stone as that will be a great tile for settler builds. If we want to go into a slavery the capitol will grow turn 32. After we lay down city 2 we can do 1 turn on 50% research without rounding losses and then do 100%. AH is in turn 32.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fdv1x9c80q3ns...dSave?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dff3k8bufop8b...dSave?dl=0

I dont know how to make a 52x52 map. This starting sim i see it like the best order in case nothing change it. Obv if we found copper of horses or another cities we could change the micro (we Could and we must). Im just curious your micro, because i tried to make the route of the without slavery one, and i didnt make it to 3 pop on time.

Those coins of pro are very needed, so i think your second city spot and just one worker are much better than my aproach.

[chumchu]

Worker 1 improves river deer 13, forest deer 18, ivory 22, chop 26 and mine 30 stone tile. Wait a turn for AH and improve cows turn 32.
Worker 2 chop then mine forest grass hill north of capitol.

City 1 work forest deer until turn 13 when the first worker has finished the camp. Then it works river deer. 3+3+3+5+5+5 food for pop 2 turn 15. 3+3+3+2+2+2 hammers for warrior turn 15.
Start on settler working stone and river deer until turn 18 for 5 food 7 hammers. When the forest deer camp is finished turn 18 work stone and forest deer for 4 food 9 hammers. 1 overflow +12+12+12+13+13+13+13+13+13 is settler turn 24. Turn 24 and 25 work both deer. 2 stored + 8 + 8 =18. Then work forest deer and Ivory for +5 to grow turn 26. Build warrior while growing. Overflow from chop turn 26 flows into a worker started at pop 3 turn 27. Complete that and then a settler.

Settle city 2 turn 25. Work river sugar 1 turn then river deer 4 turns to grow turn 29. Then start on a worker.

This can probably be improved. If we squeeze in a few more coins we can maybe get AH turn 31 to avoid wasting a worker turn. Or change it to wheel is we need it for copper.

[vanrober]

Worker 1 improves river deer 13, forest deer 18, ivory 22, chop 26 and mine 30 stone tile. Wait a turn for AH and improve cows turn 32.
Worker 2 chop then mine forest grass hill north of capitol.

City 1 work forest deer until turn 13 when the first worker has finished the camp. Then it works river deer. 3+3+3+5+5+5 food for pop 2 turn 15.  3+3+3+2+2+2 hammers for warrior turn 15.
Start on settler working stone and river deer until turn 18 for 5 food 7 hammers.  When the forest deer camp is finished turn 18 work stone and forest deer for 4 food 9 hammers. 1 overflow +12+12+12+13+13+13+13+13+13 is settler turn 24. Turn 24 and 25 work both deer. 2 stored + 8 + 8 =18. Then work forest deer and Ivory for +5 to grow turn 26. Build warrior while growing. Overflow from chop turn 26 flows into a worker started at pop 3 turn 27. Complete that and then a settler.

Settle city 2 turn 25. Work river sugar 1 turn then river deer 4 turns to grow turn 29. Then start on a worker.

This can probably be improved. If we squeeze in a few more coins we can maybe get AH turn 31 to avoid wasting a worker turn. Or change it to wheel is we need it for copper.

what would be the worker path? river deer>forest deer>ivory>stonemine?

[chumchu]

Yes!