September 11th, 2025, 13:39
(This post was last modified: September 11th, 2025, 13:42 by xist10.)
Posts: 1,170
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Last but not least in our player overview, we have coldrain with Shekinah (Creative, Arcane) of the Sidar.
coldrain isn't really any newer than me.
coldrain started in LVII, I started one game later.
LIX was clearly won by coldrain, so he's definitely a player I should keep an eye on.
In RB PB 79, I was glad that coldrain intervened too late in the war between me and Miro.
This could indicate that they still lack the ability to read the game.
Even though Miro was still ahead of me according to the military graph, Miro had actually been out of the running for a long time.
And at least when I used the first nuclear weapons
But that was almost half a year ago now.
And in EitB LIX, no one can accuse coldrain of lacking initiative.
coldrain got one of the two civs I rejected.
Here are the stats again.
Seen directly without any real bonuses. According to Civiopedia, the UU are effectively unchanged.
However, contrary to what Pedia says, I believe that assassins cannot make themselves invisible; this is exclusive to ghosts.
Divided Soul has already been explained; it is effectively a 2-tile teleport/scouting tool for explorers.
CRE/ARC is quite nice. CRE is indirectly much stronger, and ARC is definitely in the running for the strongest trait, considering the dominance of mages.
Similar to Hidden Nationality, invisibility allows for certain options, as there should be no teleportation after a declaration of war.
Nevertheless, slightly weaker against the HI than against the AI ?
But probably stronger than the Svertalfar WS with Hidden Nationality.
At first glance, the hero is (just like with the Svertalfar) a (better) assassin.
But here, too, there is access to a nice artefact.
Still, it ‘only’ does 7 ![[Image: Civ4Power.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Power.png) instead of 9/6 from the Svertalfar hero.
And here is the palace, where the appealing bonuses for specialists are more visible.
All 3 mana types are in the Nice To Have category.
Let's see what coldrain does with the Wane option of the Sidar, otherwise I don't see a very good option here.
Ghosts are primarily defensive mage counters, so I actually expect a largely classic game with research on mages.
But coldrain can still do that best?
There is no ‘distraction’ as I have with Fellowship of Leaves.
In my opinion, coldrain can more or less go directly for Sorcery with a clear conscience.
And does that make them the most dangerous opponent?
Let's see how the game develop, but that actually makes coldrain the second favourite to win.
Quick mages are dangerous, like the last game showed.
October 26th, 2025, 09:38
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So I really need to Port my sparse reports to here too.
Still a small teaser with the important parts.
I lost both scouts to animals.
First scout got surprised by a griffon, the second scout ran before a spider and a lion, was able to kill the spider und then got jumped by a second griffon.
I started with Mining research to get a few mines ( especially for the gold) going.
After that, I beelined Fellowship of I got 2 turns ago.
On the civil side I settled the 4th city this turn and I need more worker.
October 27th, 2025, 06:49
Posts: 1,170
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Since the question of victory conditions came up (on civforum.de), I can now write something about it.
In FFH (and EitB) there are 7 different victory types, not 6 as in BtS.
Time, conquest, supremacy and culture are largely unchanged.
Culture should be indirectly more difficult, as there are fewer ![[Image: Civ4Kultur.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Kultur.png) and fewer ![[Image: Civ4Kultur.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Kultur.png) multipliers.
Conversely, it is much easier to collect all religions in FFH. The corresponding technologies give each researcher a missionary.
Religious victory has no direct equivalent in BtS. Diplomacy is the closest match?
I don't know the exact mechanics here, but I think it should be relatively difficult, as I thought a city with two religions counts for both religions – so they only have 50% each.
Tower of Mastery is basically the equivalent of a spaceship victory.
Luonnotar again has no direct equivalent. But spaceship victory is the closest match here too.
Strength of Will is necessary for the Tower of Mastery.
Strength of Will is the third most expensive tech in the game – not counting future tech.
Considering the necessary research path, it is the most expensive technology for a beeline.
The really difficult thing about the Tower of Mastery, however, are the four prerequisites.
Fortunately, they are not all in the same city. They are the four national wonders that are unlocked with the four researches for the mana types (Necromancy, Elementalism, Divination and Alteration) and require all four corresponding mana types. Nevertheless, it is relatively easy, as you do not need all 16 mana types at the same time and can theoretically trade for them.
The absolute minimum without trading would be only 4 (untyped) mana nodes, as you can reset them with metamagic.
The total cost would be 18,360 ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) and 4*536 + 1340 = 3,484 ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) - Considering that the Divination miracle provides a free tech, it would only be 9,546 ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) . - , ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) Everything on Fast
The Altar of Luonnotar also requires research - Divine Essence is more expensive than Strength of Will.
Beeline is theoretically cheaper, at only 15,550 ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) . - Divine Essence alone accounts for 9k of that, Malovent Designs as Vortech another 4k. - Just a comment on the increase in research costs.
Since there are significantly more expensive techs here, you can take 2 free techs (Infernal Grimoir and Tower of Divination) to optimise your research, which would cost 4,583 ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) . - Here too, on fast
But that's not enough.
The project requires the use of several Great Prophets to build the first 6 levels of the altar.
For Prophets, building another altar level is basically an idea.
Even without Divine Essence, the bonuses look quite nice.
The total cost is therefore 4,583 ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) , 1,340 ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) and 6 ![[Image: Civ4GroPers.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4GroPers.png) – all of which must be prophets.
At least EitB has no research requirements for the 5th and 6th levels of the altar like FFH. - And you have to be Neutral or Good to build (the first 6 levels), which somewhat contradicts the 2nd Freitech through Infernal Grimoire.
I would actually like to mention that in the last game, Auroarcher researched Divine Essence (with the Infernal Grimoire) and coldrain researched Strength of Will (with Tower of Divination).
However, Auroarcher didn't have the ![[Image: Civ4GroPers.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4GroPers.png) , for coldrain, supremacy/game completion was easier to achieve at that point, I think.
October 27th, 2025, 06:50
Posts: 1,170
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Joined: Mar 2022
And now for the first update on the game itself.
For this update, we are still in T7.
The capital has completed the first warrior, followed by a second.
After that, possibly a settler at 3 ![[Image: 5pop.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/5pop.png) .
The worker has farmed a grassland field and will then do the corn.
I think after that I can farm a second GL field? ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) Unfortunately, it doesn't quite fit.
I start with two scouts.
The eastern one finds jungle again in the southeast. This looks like a good location for a second city.
In the west, I find the first landmark.
Spirit Mana and one that Refsteel invented himself to remove the slightly stronger landmarks from the game.
Pool of Tears is pretty much useless, in my opinion.
And now the difficult decision: what should I research?
I want to reach Fellowship of Leaves relatively quickly.
Currently, I have mining for (gold) mines as my first priority, followed directly by Fellowship of Leaves.
Godking with the ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) bonus should also be a good fit for the mines.
In the medium term, Knowledge of the Aether and then Sorcery are also on the agenda.
Currently, however, I prefer Calendar, Animal Husbandry (and Education to level 4 for huts) KotE.
Although I probably want to push Education further back.
The discovered jungle will probably require Bronze Working soon.
October 27th, 2025, 06:52
Posts: 1,170
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Joined: Mar 2022
We are now in T12.
I'm starting the settler with 12 ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) . I inserted a round of Granary in between, as growth to 4 ![[Image: 5pop.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/5pop.png) and the 2nd warrior didn't quite fit.
Demo isn't so good here.
A few rounds ago, I lost my second scout, the first one won a fight with a lion and is currently healing.
After the remaining scout accompanied my first settler, he now runs to his doom.
The lion and spider should be enough.
But in fact, a (already known) griffin kills the scout.
At least the spider is dead.
And I found my third city on the next turn.
Worker No. 3 follows, and I finally connect the gold to the trade network.
Research goes as planned on Fellowship of Leaves.
October 27th, 2025, 06:55
Posts: 1,170
Threads: 11
Joined: Mar 2022
As already mentioned, I'm the first to reach the tech a few turns later.
In my opinion, this is actually the religion with the best passive advantages – and, above all, good synergy with my elves.
Religions are actually implemented a little differently in FFH – and are (significantly) stronger than in BtS.
There is actually only 1  for the state religion in FFH, but my form of government gives me 2.
This is quite interesting, as it raises my  cap to 8.
Furthermore, the missionaries are significantly stronger.
They can be built indefinitely, and their names sometimes differ depending on the religion.
However, all missionaries have an ![[Image: Civ4Power.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Power.png) of 3 – currently my second-best buildable unit – and a ‘special skill’.
My Disciples of Leaves can construct a great work of art.
It is ‘only’ 13 ![[Image: Civ4Kultur.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Kultur.png) , but it still has the ability to immediately end city anarchy after conquest.
Other missionaries can ‘bulb’. This brings similar benefits and is actually an even more inefficient use of ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) , but since research and prosperity buildings are not so early on the research path due to the highly fragmented tech tree, it is definitely an option. Of course, it is limited to the prophets' bulblist.
To train more disciples, I have to build a temple – there are no monasteries.
Temple of Leaves is one of the weaker temples. Bard and +1 ![[Image: Civ4Gesundheit.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Gesundheit.png) as a speciality are not that good.
Alternatives to the +1 ![[Image: Civ4Gesundheit.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Gesundheit.png) would be, for example, +10% ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) for units or +2 ![[Image: Forschung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Forschung.png) .
Here, however, we see indirectly the strength of my religion – and as far as I know, the only one with a passive effect.
Forests within the city radius of a city with Fellowship of the Leaves (also as the state religion) can become ‘Ancient’ Forests.
+ 1 ![[Image: Civ4Nahrung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Nahrung.png) is a good advantage.
Furthermore, Treants can spawn in Ancient Forests at a rate of 5% (?) when enemies enter this field. With a temple, this should then be 15%.
Here is the capital city – now finish the first hunter as a reasonably competent combat/exploration unit.
Bruti has a small barbarian problem – a warrior on 1-4 prevents the copper from being connected, after I already had to delay the wheat because of barbarians.
Research is going towards animal husbandry; I have too many animals in the area to delay this any further.
The next round, city number 4 is founded.
Unfortunately, it's on the edge of the jungle.
And Demo shows that my ![[Image: Civ4Nahrung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Nahrung.png) values are not good.
Unfortunately, the option to switch to agrarianism for +1 ![[Image: Civ4Nahrung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Nahrung.png) with farms is not that attractive to me, as this form of government comes with -1 ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) – and my farms are located in forests.
October 27th, 2025, 06:56
Posts: 1,170
Threads: 11
Joined: Mar 2022
I get a positive event.
+1 ![[Image: Civ4Nahrung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Nahrung.png) or +1 ![[Image: Wirtschaft.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Wirtschaft.png) .
I have decided on ![[Image: Civ4Nahrung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Nahrung.png) .
Something is wrong with my assumption about Ancient Forest.
Apparently, it is enough to have Fellowship of the Leaves as the state religion?
And the next city
And now you are also nearly up to date.
I played T46 a few minutes ago, but I have nothing to post there.
November 20th, 2025, 06:14
Posts: 1,170
Threads: 11
Joined: Mar 2022
Time to catch up here a bit.
I wasn't really able to translate my few post till now, so I start to slowly catch up here.
Maybe a bit better for engangement.
Last post was T44/T45 (PBEM is always so unclear there).
I played 70/71 today, but I have not that much to write about ?
Anyway, first post toady.
An overview from T50.
Evermore already has 2 ancient forest in the fat cross. (Remeber, FotL i 7 turns old by now).
Evermore has quite a bit ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) . With overflow I reach 92 ![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) for my next settler.
I want to build primary settlers and hunters here.
With Hyll I despair a bit I'm researching Animal Husbandry before Education.
This city has many nice cottage tiles.
I'm building a temple and then a few missionaries here.
Already 4 ancient forest in the fat cross here.
Bruti has the most work done till nearly. But I also have no real growth potential for now.
I do plan to use the Elder council to get a ![[Image: Civ4GroPers.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4GroPers.png) in the "near" future.
I'm not PHI, this needs about 20 turns.
Yonna had a few barb problems when I founded this city.
As such, my worker needed to wait a bit to start farming.
Maybe founded a bit too early, I can't deal with the jungle right now.
Demo is not good.
![[Image: Civ4Produktion.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Produktion.png) is (thanks to the 4 mines on the capital) very good. Animal Husbandry should be helping to increase ![[Image: Civ4Nahrung.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Civ4Nahrung.png) a bit, but I need Education to increase ![[Image: Wirtschaft.png]](https://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/civ4symbole/Wirtschaft.png) .
November 21st, 2025, 14:24
Posts: 1,170
Threads: 11
Joined: Mar 2022
A bit late today, but the next updates.
I finished AH.
I start with Education, I really need to option to build cottages.
My eco is bad - I miss the river commerce.
I lose the second hunter by good chances for me.
And I won't kill this bear that easy.
November 21st, 2025, 14:32
Posts: 1,170
Threads: 11
Joined: Mar 2022
And the next small jump.
I meet Bing.
If the city contains only the scout next turn, I really need to think about razing it.
But I don't expect Bing to make this mistake.
Bing founded his 5th city this turn.
I will found my 6th city next turn.
But Bing economy is a lot better.
I need Education and I need to wait at least 10 turns more for that.
And then I still need to wait a bit till the cottages come online.
Demo (Eco) is still bad.
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