[SPOILER] Suryavarman II of Maya - Whosit & Ravus Sol

[Whosit]

If you can't spot the sucker in the game it's because YOU are the sucker.

Who, me? *Innocent look*

I think this is good stuff. Your report on Gaspar made me laugh, admittedly. You are definitely more suited for this kind of investigation than I am, so anything more you can learn would be helpful. I'll have to do some more reading myself to try and add anything useful, but I think I can add some supplemental information on Nakor:

Not sure which game you were reading, but as I hear it from Pitboss 2, Nakor suckered me good and hung me out to dry. Haven't read his thread in detail, and not recently, but I do recall that my elimination barely registered mention, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't crying himself to sleep over my death. Not that I hold a grudge. So, I would agree that he is opportunistic. We'll want to be cautious in dealing with him, at the very least. I don't think he's the type to uphold an alliance out of the goodness of his heart, unlike yours truly (yes, I know that's a bad thing in politics. Now.).

I don't know a lot about Refsteel, but I'm pretty sure that he's been a member of the community for some time. Not sure how much multiplayer stuff he does. I feel like I recall that he played in Pitboss 1, but all those threads have been removed, so I dunno. Not sure if he was picked by Kyan, but I suppose I won't discount that possibility. Edit: No, don't think he was in Pitboss 1, after all.

Oh, and as for gingereagle (GE should work as shorthand), I doubt that he's spreading false info on his abilities. I don't think I've met anyone whose done that. But he does have Sandover to coach him, so that may overcome many of his mechanical deficiencies.

Yeah, not much more to add right now. I'll try to keep the speculation down, but it's also my duty as host to be the life of the party! And the lurkers have a certain expectation of me, y'see. If I don't ramble aimlessly about everyone plotting against me, they will be disappointed, and we can't have that, now can we? :neenernee

Edit: Oops, missed Ravus' entire second post.

Either way, posting war is un-needed. We'll find something else more important to annoy them with.

Ah, I hope that we do. You know how loath I am to renounce tradition.

So i'm Mr Paper Shield? I don't know about you but that title seems to be lacking a bit. makes it seem like my job is useless tut tut. Diplomatic Courier maybe?

You can be Co-Consul or Supreme Diplomatic Officer if you want. I just meant (as I'm sure you know!) that a treaty is meaningless if you don't have some actual muscle to back it up. If our plan is to expand at the expense of developing a big army, the other players will notice.

Nice on the "no land division treaties" Whosit. You can tell that for the greater diplomatic good you would be willing to bend on these matters NOT. I'm going to have my work cut out for me, smoothing over this initial expansion campaign aren't I? heh. Should be fun.

:neenernee

Ohhhh, we are going to have a fun time together! Yeah, yeah, it all depends. I'm just thinking about the Apolyton game, I guess. OK, I'll clarify: If our neighbor seems like they will be slow to expand, it will be in our best interest to just take as much as we can. If it looks like we'll have to race them, settling some kind of agreement could be in our best interest.

I'm not unreasonable. Completely. Mostly. Heh heh.

[Cyneheard]

RefSteel was part of the Maya in PB3. Both him and Maniac poured large amounts of time into the game, and with successful results.

This could also be why he was picked by Kyan, who was the Babylon player for much of the game, and they were close allies.

[Ravus Sol]

Who, me? *Innocent look*

:neenernee

I think this is good stuff. Your report on Gaspar made me laugh, admittedly.

Darn Gasper being all unknowable. Have to make sure not to fall into the trap of getting wrapped up in trying to out think him when i don't know ANYTHING. Therein lies the road to madness.

You are definitely more suited for this kind of investigation than I am, so anything more you can learn would be helpful. I'll have to do some more reading myself to try and add anything useful, but I think I can add some supplemental information on Nakor:

Not sure which game you were reading, but as I hear it from Pitboss 2, Nakor suckered me good and hung me out to dry. Haven't read his thread in detail, and not recently, but I do recall that my elimination barely registered mention, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't crying himself to sleep over my death. Not that I hold a grudge. So, I would agree that he is opportunistic. We'll want to be cautious in dealing with him, at the very least. I don't think he's the type to uphold an alliance out of the goodness of his heart, unlike yours truly (yes, I know that's a bad thing in politics. Now.).

Hopefully, like i said our luck doesn't seem to be strong here so we could end up with the mother of all Xanatos Gambits exploding in our face. Would be amusing but not constructive.

I'm onto that Pitboss 2 game now. It's not up to your sucker punch yet, which turn was it do you remember? No grudge? You are sure? So we shouldn't try and arrange anything?

Upholding an alliance is fine as long as you know that the player is also one to uphold an alliance... i take it this isn't the kind of "goodness of your heart" thing you are talking about? What happened? With looking up all our rivals and dealing with flooding at home, i still havn't got through your Roman game.

I don't know a lot about Refsteel, but I'm pretty sure that he's been a member of the community for some time. Not sure how much multiplayer stuff he does. I feel like I recall that he played in Pitboss 1, but all those threads have been removed, so I dunno. Not sure if he was picked by Kyan, but I suppose I won't discount that possibility.

Yeah he looks VERY competent. I've found something he's in and he does very detailed accounts. It all depends on his interaction as a side player. The effort you put into a game differs when you don't hold the reigns after all. I'll make a note to bring it up casually once a dialogue is set up.

Oh, and as for gingereagle (GE should work as shorthand), I doubt that he's spreading false info on his abilities. I don't think I've met anyone whose done that. But he does have Sandover to coach him, so that may overcome many of his mechanical deficiencies.

Yeah, not much more to add right now. I'll try to keep the speculation down, but it's also my duty as host to be the life of the party! And the lurkers have a certain expectation of me, y'see. If I don't ramble aimlessly about everyone plotting against me, they will be disappointed, and we can't have that, now can we? :neenernee

Anyone? I do things like that! Although TT and yourself ruined my ability to do some of it by posting about how "interesting" it would be for us to team up. *sigh* hopefully i can still play of that mysterious factor and that no-one who knows me too well is filling anybody in on how much i love to talk.

GE works as a nickname thanks!

Life of the Party? Great, why do i feel this is suddenly a double act? You the zainy paranoid warrior and me the cynical diplomat... maybe we should change our city name plan from traitors to comedians?

Still, out of those rough assumptions on players is there anyone or any team that you would feel comfortable working with or anyone that you would definatly want to try and steer clear on etc. or are you happy waiting and watching?

-

EXTRA: Thanks for the additional information Cyneheard. I thought they might have some connection. This definatly means they should bear watching as the most competent duo in the game. At least most likely to be competent. Possibly also a target for propaganda at making a pariah if they are too good and get ahead in the scoreboard.

[Whosit]

RefSteel was part of the Maya in PB3. Both him and Maniac poured large amounts of time into the game, and with successful results.

This could also be why he was picked by Kyan, who was the Babylon player for much of the game, and they were close allies.

You would think that I would know this, because I was ostensibly on the Babylonian team, but, eh. Thanks, Cyneheard. I could never keep track of the diplo in that game. Gotta give credit where credit is due (Kyan).

Anyway, to answer some of Ravus' stuff:

Regarding the Rome game, let's just say that Sullla decided that I was "too good of an ally." Let's also say that I was duped into handing a lot of my resources over to other players who claimed that they would assist me, but were either unable or unwilling (probably the latter). I'd like to say that, at that point, I was kind of checked out anyway, but in reality, I was just too trusting. I plan to be a bit more cynical this time around.

Though, speaking of that, I don't want to write off alliance with any given player, mainly out of principle. In theory, reputation shouldn't carry over from game to game... at least, in my ideal little world. Also speaking of, sorry that TT and I ruined our mystery-man routine. I'm sure we can make due.

Also: I forgot to say before, but hope the flooding wasn't too bad! Water damage is always a huge pain.

Regarding sneaky information-drops: OK, anyone besides you. In Civ, at least. As far as I know. My experience here, anyway, is that players, especially new players, aren't shy about areas in which they are deficient. But I'll leave it up to you to take things with a grain of salt.

Naming convention: Maybe a capital city of Clemens? Chaplin? Bozo the Clown? Or a mixture of naming conventions, perhaps, to throw them off the trail.

[Ravus Sol]

Ouch. "too good of an ally" is not a good thing to hear. Although it sounds good that Sulla thought you were enough of a threat (i assume it was this and not that he thought you were too goody goody and were planning a backstab) that you needed "dealing with"

Ideally perhaps. but we both know people keep reputations. It's allright you didn't give anything away i just can't play a completly naive game now.

The flooding isn't too bad. Just annoying.

And yeah, it half seems like some gentlemans game here with people being honest about areas needing improvement and blocking all the tricky stuff that can be abused like tech trades and spy missions.

I'll leave the naming up to you. If it was me i'd change the city names round every turn just to annoy people

[Whosit]

Ouch. "too good of an ally" is not a good thing to hear. Although it sounds good that Sulla thought you were enough of a threat (i assume it was this and not that he thought you were too goody goody and were planning a backstab) that you needed "dealing with"

Ummm... no, not really... that was Sullla's post-game analysis. He wasn't really involved in my downfall. Directly. Maybe not even indirectly. I basically helped people backstab me.

And yeah, it half seems like some gentlemans game here with people being honest about areas needing improvement and blocking all the tricky stuff that can be abused like tech trades and spy missions.

You sound so disappointed! Honestly, I think I like no tech trading. Feels more like a competition to me. I imagine you'd like tech trading because it lets you flex your diplomatic muscles, getting all the deals. ALL OF THEM. (Some nice cookies to whoever gets that one.)

I'll leave the naming up to you. If it was me i'd change the city names round every turn just to annoy people

Ha ha! Not a bad idea, except all that work. I still like the traitors theme, if you've got enough names. If you leave it up to me, I'll just pick something incredibly silly that will probably annoy you the entire game.

By the way, pardon the speculation, but if we are so fortunate as to have Stone within, well, a stone's throw of us, we may want to at least consider the Pyramids. For an intentional weed () play, build the 'mids to get Rep because Representation-powered Spy specs are +4 beakers +4 espionage points. Get Courthouses in every city and hire a Spy in each city, and we'll be rolling in EP (+6 per city). Only get passive missions, of course, but it will help us see opponent research, and maybe even city visibility.

It'd help if we were organized, of course. Courthouses generally aren't high-priority buildings until early-mid-game (or thereabouts), depending on how many cities ya' have. No one is Industrious, so we have a shot. Of course, it'd put some kinda big X on us 'cuz everyone would know we're makin' all those EPs. Just a thought.

[Ravus Sol]

So we are allowed Passive Espionage? hmmmm i'm not sure the political backlash would be worth the increased expenditure. It seems quite a lot of people arrange deals here to limit expenditure on some people they trust... so it might work as a carrot or stick deal. We'd have to pick at least one person to view as an enemy otherwise the points would be going to waste.

Yeah i guess i am a little dissapointed. I can understand why it happened. It's more like chess against multiple opponents now. The influence of political fallout or being a Pariah is negligible.

I'll get you a list of traitor names tomorrow... or tonight after work. It would be a lot of work to re-do names every turn, but you know i'd have fun with it.

P.S: I hope you are happy that by talking about IMPORTANT stuff we've broken even on the posting war?

[Whosit]

P.S: I hope you are happy that by talking about IMPORTANT stuff we've broken even on the posting war?

:neenernee

My ramblings are quite important! Just you wait until the mood swings!

The upside of the EP plan is that by the time it becomes feasible to mass-construct Courthouses, we'll have probably identified at least one opponent to spend on. But, yes, many "friendly" players agree to stop EP spending at 43, just enough for graph visibility. Not like we have to play by those rules, of course. Just have to prepare for the consequences. Anyway, obviously it's a pipe dream, just figured it'd be one you might interested in.

Hm... you could play with this: http://www.mf2fm.com/RaToNaGe/ But it's likely to generate names too long for Civ. There's also this: http://www.squid.org/rpg-random-generator?page_id=103

I'm slightly tempted to go along with this madness, now that there's something to do some of thinking for me. But what about our Civilization's name? Empire of <Insert Name Here>? I'd rather not change that all the time, too. Just with every revolution. Oyyy... what madness.

[Ravus Sol]

Mood swings... is there something you need to tell me?

Yeah we'll know more when we get set up. I know you are the type of person to enjoy knowing your opponents moves, so if we can't set up some political information and diplomat exchange we can go spy crazy on them.

If you want i can just do a turn every now and again when things are quiet and i'll change them all round :D hmmm Empire of "your lord and master" could be amusing. Empire of Peace, allways. Empire of Trust. Empire of look behind you. Empire of we'll pick a name tomorrow. Empire of madness. Empire of five left. Empire of prepare for a new most embaressing memory. Empire of -wait what? Empire of fo eripmE. Empire of Hammertime.

i'm sure you can pick something. We can allways change it later.

Seeing as we have some time, explain some of this Realms beyond terminology to me. What's this pink dot thing? It sounds like each type of city advance has been colour co-ordinated right?

[Mist]

Pink Dot ™

A famously reckless and successful gambit pulled in Apolyton demogame by Sulla&Co. Read here http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ4/ADG2.html

Currently can mean anything from natural first settling site, to a bold landgrab that might or might not be successful. I guess color-coding of city sites is a side-effect of reading Sulla's writeups