Those annoying cell phones in public places

[ShadowHM]

Originally posted by Pete@Apr 16 2004, 03:34 PM
it probably will not last through a theater production, or even a long film.

Aww.....

Just like you, Pete ! Introducing the harsh facts to bust my bubble ! ;-)

Here I had a nice rosy imagined scenario: Settling into my theatre seat with a sigh of contentment, ready to enjoy the play I had purchased my tickets for with such anticipation. Reaching into my pocket and activating my 'cone of cell phone silence' for the duration of the play. Leaning back and letting the show wash over me. Getting to play the vigilante with respect to those oft-ignored pleas posted in the lobby requesting that cell phones not be used. Ahhh.....the wonderful daydream I had built for myself, now gone.

Or,


Would a trip to the privacy of the washrooms at intermission suffice to change the batteries in time? Hmmm.....


Oh well. Daydreams serve a purpose too. Heck, at this point in my life, getting to go to a live play anytime soon is just a daydream too, right up there with trips to Las Vegas.


And one more thought: Is the backlash against cell phones just another expression of the Luddite in all of us?

[Pete]

. . . so long as it's not different from what they're used to.

Hi,

Would a trip to the privacy of the washrooms at intermission suffice to change the batteries in time?

Probably.

Is the backlash against cell phones just another expression of the Luddite in all of us?

Well, let's let the site that started all this answer us:

"This cell phone jammer looks just like a cell phone and is ideal for use when commuting on the bus and train or when eating in restaurants etc, anywhere where you need effective control at close quarters!

. . . When you have had your meal or enjoyed your coffee in peace and quiet, you can then switch off your phone jammer and continue on your way completely stress free.

Notice that it is not loud conversations that bother him, only the use of cell phones. Does that sound like someone who is being truly disturbed? No mention of theaters, movies or libraries. Just irritation because someone interfered with his Neanderthal experience.

--Pete

[Kabuki]

Yep. We're well into the third Spock generation of people who were raised without damaging their frail egos. Or, looking at it from another standpoint, without having the least bit of discipline imposed on them. Babies are, by necessity, self centered, One of a parent's responsibilities is to change that. Many have failed to even try. And that is why rudeness prevails -- on the road, in restaurants, and theaters, and especially on the Internet.

Or so I think.

Pete, you're not the only one, you have the support of about 60-70% of anyone who writes on child-rearing at the moment... There are some interesting exceptions, but not many.

And both Pete and LK raise a very legitimate point, it is in fact not the quiet cellphone user that bothers me, I'm bothered by loud cellphone conversations (which I'm sorry are the norm), just as I am bothered by loud conversations. I suppose that is my problem, and admittedly in the two countries I am likely to live it's not as much a problem as most people have gone over to using SMS (text messages) in public and joy of all joys in Japan cellphone conversations are not allowed on the train, and peple are interestingly very quiet when they do talk which is not true here on the buses.

----

How about if I shift this discussion slightly - What if we look at this from the perspective of the respect for other's personal space? When I am out I make every effort not to intrude on someone's personal space, it would make us all uncomfortable. How do cellphones fit into this concept of space? Do you now have unlimited size to your space, and mine has to be infringed upon, or is there again a compromise that has to be reached? If common sense (definately not common) prevailed quiet cellphones and quiet users would be the key terms, or simply stepping out of the restaurant when your phone rang (in vibrator mode). In which case I go: What problem?

Now I want to toss this to Pete (as you have made this point twice, as if it was natural): Why should I allow my personal space and freedom to be intruded on, rather than ensuring that my space and freedom is not intruded on? The problem here is if I step outside of the law, but that is a different issue.

Another problem here is regarding confrontations: If I confront someone, whom I don't know with a (to me) reasonable request, it may not be percieved as reasonable. In fact it may lead to a confrontation. I have a responsibility not to put myself, or anyone else at risk, thus the possibility of a confrontation must be minimized. This leads me not to be able to place many of the kind of requests that would be "normal", simply because I do not want to deal with any aggravation or fallout from doing so.

I will conced one point on the devices - usage of them is an imposition on others, thus morally wrong. And by personalizing the issue LK why we should not do so, however if only people like LK used cellphones there wouldn't be a problem. Imposition of your space on mine, is also fundamentally wrong? Which is more wrong? Or is is simply a matter of perspective? And as much as Pete is correct regarding the fact that one can't walk through the day with a "cone of cellphone silence" judicious use (and some minor jury rigging of an extra battery pack or simply buying a rechargables) should allow you to stop impositions on your space at the most aggravating moments, and I am positive that at the cinema, theatre and many restaurants that you would not be the only happy person around... (Ok, good of many and all that, if we want to get into debating utilitarianism - please pop that up in your message header, please?)

Btw. To everyone participating in the discussion - Thank you. I am finding the discussion to be interesting, challenging and enlightening. *bow, exunt left*

[LKendter]

There is a difference between use and abuse. On the local commuter train I called my wife for about a minute to let her know the time to pick me up at the station. My exact time varying each week, and I didn't want my wife stuck at the station waiting for me. That was a quick and legitimate use my IMHO.


Then I had the person on the phone half the trip calling his lover a stupid bitch and much worse. Complaining why the F*** don't you... That is total abuse. I agree these type of jerks need to stop, just as the person who plays there CD player so loud that I hear it 8 rows away, along with many other things.

In the end this issue isn't the technology such as Cell Phones. It is the rude people who abuse them.

[Kabuki]

I agree.

Your answer begs the question: How do we fix this? There is no way I would have gone over to the person and asked him to turn off the cellphone... The risk is too high, just as you did not. Thus he was allowed to impose not just on you, but on everyone else on the bus. No single person is going to step up to him because it is simply an unacceptable level of risk. However there is a way around it, even if it (unfortuanately) would hurt a legitimate user like yourself, thus the question becomes one of trade-offs and which ones you are willing to make, and which one's I am willing to make...

Or am I missing something?

[Pete]

Hi,

How do we fix this? There is no way I would have gone over to the person and asked him to turn off the cellphone... The risk is too high

And therein lies the problem.

While it should be up to the parents to raise a polite person (and is often not done), it remains up to society to police itself in matters of politeness past childhood, since laws don't do it. At various times throughout history, a rude person was likely to be: hit with the nearest rock; nailed to the nearest tree; challenged to a duel; called out to a gunfight; or punched in the nose. And so, we had mostly polite people with the occasional rude good fighter. Not a perfect solution, but pragmatic.

Now the population breaks down into three groups: the silent suffering majority who are afraid to do anything overt to reduce rudeness, the loudmouthed arrogant minority who take advantage of this to let their natural rudeness hold sway, and the tiny, almost no longer existent sliver that are willing to cast glances, make statements, and if necessary throw a punch or two. Unfortunately, the third group is too small to make much of a dent on the second. And the first -- well, you don't really want me to say what I think of the first. Suffice to say that I have been flamed by the first for the simple act of trying to maintain a standard in fora.

In our modern docile society, the solution to problems seems to be court. As if one could afford to do so or the courts would give satisfaction. Avoiding confrontation, that's the ticket. Better to let the bullies, the rude jerks, the assholes have their way than to risk our precious skins. Bah.

This applies to individuals as well as nations.

--Pete

[Ozymandous]

Hmm, well you can add me to the list of people who will make a comment to someone else. Not all the time, and definitely not when my wife is around (she doesn't like when I do that for some reason), but there are some who will do something.

Of course the problem arises, as you allude to, not when that small minority is upset when you tell them to pipe down, but when that silent majority looks down on you for trying to help in the first place! I've had people who complain about something then complain about me when I say something to the individual or group that is causing the problem, and that makes me want to speak up even less the next time it happens.

Dr. Spock ruined quite a few generations of people me thinks, but thank god my dad was a "spaore the rod and spoil the child" type, I know how to behave when I need to. I had the bruises and welts on my butt from a leather belt to prove that while growing up. Of course although there was no lasting harm done by the whippings I got growing up I doubt any of the government sponsored 'child care' agencies would see things the same way today.

[Lemming]

I do not own a cell phone. I find the little devices to be increasingly more absurd. From irritating Saturday Morning TV ring tones to stupid little "games" people download to the new-fangled camera phones, I'm becoming increasingly wary of the damn things. At my university, I heard that a professor caught a student using a camera phone during a test. The student was sending off pictures of test questions to a friend who would text-message back the answer. I didn't know camera phones could e-mail pictures, but I'm not surprised if they can.

I won't be shelling out the cash for one of these myself. I have yet to be that annoyed. But I do enjoy knowing that I could enjoy a completely cell-phone conversation free movie or concert if I really wanted to do so.

While rude cellphone conversations can be annoying, it's equally annoying being the person these silly gits are calling. I personally haven't received a phone call from someone who was in a movie theatre or a library. However, I do regularly get cellphone calls from a guy who gets bored while driving (or just wherever). Now, having seen him drive, he's not one who should be focusing on anything but. Ugh.

And what does this oh-so-fascinating person have to talk about? What's so urgent that he must make a phonecall from someplace other than his residence?

1) "Are you up for a game of D2?"
I have never answered "Yes" to this question. I don't know why he keeps asking. I even told him not to buy D2. But that aside, why ask me that on the road?! It's much more sensible to ask it from, say, his computer desk. Then again, this is also a person who, having owned D2 since December, last week called me (not on his cellphone) to ask where the Den of Evil was because his clvl 75 Necromancer was having trouble finding it in A1 Hell.

2) "What are you doing?"
I have four standard responses.
"Playing a game you're unfamiliar with." And he doesn't believe me until I tell him the game name.
"Working on math proofs." to which he makes an "eww"-like noise and says "Math is the devil."
"Working on a paper." which usually takes me quite some time, but he doesn't believe me and usually makes repeat phone calls asking whether I'm finished and/or up for a game of D2 (see above).
"Watching TV. Bye." which mercifully ends the conversation.

Note that we share very few mutual interests, so I do not call him. He hasn't caught on yet.

3) "I just saw the most recent (Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, Bawdy Teen) movie. You should see it."
I have never fallen for this and gone to see such a movie on his recommendation. Moreover, I've repeatedly informed him how he's wasting his money and - worse - encouraging Hollywood to make more movies every time he attends these wonderful examples of cinematic excrement. And yet . . .

4) "I'm bored."
So why inflict your boredom on me? I have things to do (see 2).

Thus, I conclude my post title: Bored people should not own cellphones. A phone is not an anti-boredom pill. It should not be used as one, lest you wish me to test whether it should be administered as a suppository. The Chronically Bored should accept, just as people did in olden days, their existence sucks. Alas, nowdays people believe they're entitled to happiness, not to pursue happiness. And in hopes of alleviating "I am therefore I'm bored" the Chronically Bored lash out at the world with their newest weapon of annoyance: cellphones. When wielded properly, it annoys not only those in their immediate vicinity, but anyone whose number they dial.

-Lemmy

[barron of ideas]

I too do not own a cell phone. Primarily because i am an old fogey and see no use for it. i don 't want the whole world able to interupt me when I am otherwise happy. However I did see a use for one last week. A driver who hit a motorcyclist who wound up under the car was able to call 911 and get medical attention for him.

I suppose if I drove outside urban areas where I could expect to find a phone booth (and these are disappearing due to less use by the public who mostly have cellphones and vandalism) I would find a use for a cell phone, to call AAA or someone to let them know I was not going to be where they expected me due to car problems.

But I don't think this is useful enough for me to pay significant money for it.

On the other hand, a lot of people need communication, even useless communication. See how successful email has become, and how useless most of the messages are. Probably inclucing this one. Oh well, When it doesn't cost anything extra, not even 37 cents for a stamp, why not? Costs you nothing and worth the price?

[Griselda]

So many people have stepped up to say that they hate cell phones, so I figured I'd add my two cents. I got a cell phone within the last year, and I'm glad I did. My job requires me to visit my students' homes several times throughout the year, and there are some places where I just don't feel safe. One of our cars will be 20 years old in a few months. My husband and I go out of town separately often enough that it's nice to be able to avoid the $15/minute or whatever the hotel phone charges are.

None of these reasons are as critical LKendter's reason for having a cell phone, of course. I was able to get by just fine without one, and still could. However, these are some of the reasons that I enjoy having my phone.

I don't use it very often. Mostly, my husband and I just talk to one another on them. I certainly don't feel tied down by it, mostly because I have no problem with turning the ringer off and just ignoring the thing when I don't want to be bothered. I can always check the voice mail later on if I feel like it.

While I never thought I'd come down on the "phones don't annoy people, people annoy people" side of things, that's where I stand. For the longest time, people thought that horses' white legs were weaker than their other lags, because they seemed to go lame so much more frequently. But, it turned out that people just noticed when the white leg went lame, and since they only paid attention in those cases, it seemed like those were the weaker ones. Nowadays, when someone's being an obnoxious jerk with a cell phone, or a bad driver with the cell phone, it's easy to pay attention to the phone and forget that they're probably just as obnoxious and drive just as poorly without the phone. Likewise, you probably won't notice the people who keep their cell phones quietly tucked away in their purses or pockets, because those phones aren't attracting attention.

I do make or take calls in public if they're relevant to what I'm doing, but certainly not during a movie or a play, and not because I feel like chatting.

I *do* find it strange when people on cell phones walk into a stall in a public restroom, and continue their conversation! :wacko: :blink:

-Griselda