SPOILERS-Tatan's PBEM10 Thread

[Adlain]

I do have some thoughts, however this is still your game and i feel you should be given the chance to do what you belive is right. If however you want my thoughs, just say and i will type it up asap

I will say however, think long and hard about this decision. Consisder the wording used in the Email and any subsiquant corrispondance (on both sides) with care and good luck

[Adlain]

As tatan has asked (and draged me out of bed), i will post my thoughts on this.

Personaly i dont like this deal atall, Sure he has the advantage on us ATM but iirc we have our East Indiamen arriving asap, engineering isnt far off and decent size citys with alor of food surplus that means we can whip out a Sizable army pritty damn quickly.

His argment for this peace deal is partialy floored. His GNP is vastly Inflated by all his wonderhorading. Coupled to the fact a couple of Boats will soon strip him of his pop and thus his Production advantage and our UU happens to be a nice little boat i dont think he is has impregnable as he is making out.

So in short, i dont think its a done deal we have lost, so i think this is a premature offer on his part. i personly would have no intention of signing this, i like to go down fighting, and surrigate winning is just another term for 2nd place.NO PEEKING FOR FFHPBEM 1 PLAYERS

take Culls position in FFHPBEM 1, i know its a currently running game but its a well known fact he is vassalised to Bob, and personal i think its a cheese move on his part and we would be no better doing the same in this game. your play to win and i dont see vassilisation as winning in any way. you are mearly saying that you have given up any hope of winning and are willing to prop up a 3rd party into a better position. doesnt sit well with me im afraid

now lets look at his offer if you are thinking about signing up with him:

- Everlasting NAP till the end of the gameiirc hasnt he just broken nap with us?? so i dont trust him period.
- Everlasting MDP till the end of the game WTF is a MDP, Nakor/DMOC showed us how to get around that if you do sign up
- You will spread the faith of Buddishm in all your citiesMeh, neather here nor there imho
- Borders will be kept open forever again, not exsactly a killer, but understandable from his perspective - free money
- Resources will be traded free of charge and the other one is always the preferred trade partner if he does not have this resource by his ownis it free of charge both ways (i doubt it) if it is thats a good deal for us
- Resources can't be requested if the other has only one of it, except for strategic resourcesMeh, no problem
- Military assistance for campaigns against Cyneheard and others (that can mean either via using your troops or gifting them - if this makes the campaign easier manageable - as well as building those troops)Sounds like a more definate version of a MDP, but who gets to decide wether the campain is more managable when you control your own troops or through gifting, i would assume Serdoa as he is asking us to capitulate, but its not very clear, also does this mean he will expect us to wade in against cyneheard at his conveniance, act as a meat sheild for him to attack afterwards or are we just going to be a buffer zone between the 2??
- All cities we conquer will be put under Russian control The Biggie, and TBH the bit i dont like. understandable from his perspective, but if he exspects us to do the donkey work (see militry assistance) then hand over the gains, its abit too much to swallow
- This does not apply to 2 cities (one of them being the one on that island between you and Cyneheard) we take from Cyneheard which will be put under your control in exchange for Ehrlitan (simply for cultural reasons because we do crush us in this area and that sucks)reasonable demand

so yea, if you go for the deal (i would not) it isnt a terrible deal, although alot is unsaid and down to interpritation - and thats very dangerous for both civs. i think our best bet is to blockade his citys as much as we can and both starve him out and deny him access to our islands while we build up some pikes, catapults and other militry and see if we cannot regain our lost citys. hel its worth a try and is better than the other option imho.

Hopefuly that gives you somthing to think about - if it makes no scence, my apoligies, i will look at this again tommorrow evning and see if it looks the same as it does now in my befuddled state (i was asleep when you PM`d me but though you would like to know intime to make a decision before playing your turn)

Adlain.

[Tatan]

Yeah, I took a while to come up with a decision, and almost went through with it a couple hours ago [I even composed the email], but then I began doubting myself, and now I'm really not sure.

If it helps, I asked for a few clarifications:

Okay, may I ask for two specific clarifications?


"- All cities we conquer will be put under Russian control"
Does this include any cities that I conquer by myself in a different war, i.e. if I launched a naval invasion to the east and attacked Ad Hoc, would you still want control over any cities I take?

"- This does not apply to 2 cities (one of them being the one on that island between you and Cyneheard)..."
Maybe I didn't clarify this well, but there are TWO of Cyneheard's cities on that island, and then two of mine as well, so I'm assuming that you mean I'll get to choose one of them, in addition to one other city?

-Tatan

To be honest I have never thought about your first point. I had in mind that we would work together in all military affairs for the time being. But I certainly can understand where you are coming from and it does make sense and still gives you options. But I would have to add something to prevent that you fight Mackoti as he is an ally (at least now). So I would propose the following:

"- All cities we conquer will be put under Russian control" will be deleted
"- All cities conquered in wars with Cyneheard will be put under Russian control" will be added
"- No cities will be razed without prior agreement from both parties" will be added
"- No wars with Mackoti will be started without prior agreement from Russia" will be added

For your second point: Yes, pretty much. I simply cannot at this time propose anything more exact because I have no map of Cyneheards lands. And I would say that we mutually agree on them. Simply because firstly I obivously want the AP-city and secondly this point was meant so that you get something back worth Ehrlitan, first and foremost

Kind regards,
Serdoa

So...

From the tone of his emails, and judging by his past diplomacy in other games, it seems to me [though I'm often horrible at reading these things] that Serdoa is sincere about teaming up, although he would still probably be the top dog.


And just for the record:

iirc hasnt he just broken nap with us?? so i dont trust him period.

Not that I really trust him, either, but we never actually agreed to a NAP in the earlier Peace Treaty, which was one of the single biggest mistakes in the game on my part.

Sounds like a more definate version of a MDP, but who gets to decide wether the campain is more managable when you control your own troops or through gifting, i would assume Serdoa as he is asking us to capitulate, but its not very clear, also does this mean he will expect us to wade in against cyneheard at his conveniance, act as a meat sheild for him to attack afterwards or are we just going to be a buffer zone between the 2??

In an earlier peace proposal [we counter-proposed some different things earlier], Serdoa suggested that he could gift me most of his knights for an attack on Cyneheard, so I'm guessing that he would either do just that or be an active participant in the war. I admit to being unsure, though.



Honestly, I was [and still kinda am] leaning towards taking the deal... And at the same time, I'm conflicted about it [mostly the fact that I am unsure of whether it would be closer to an alliance or a vassalage, and also the fact that it might be unfair to the other players]. Well, Serdoa posted in the tech thread that he would be playing the turn in what is now seven hours, so I guess that is my deadline.

[Bobchillingworth]

Are permanent alliances enabled for your game? Serdoa's initial proposal to you makes it sound like they are, but I thought all of the PBEM here kept them off.

[Tatan]

Okay, I finally reached a decision and emailed it to Serdoa, but I'm going to hold off posting about it here until later, because such an important decision deserves a better explanation than I can give right now [sorry!].

@Bob: I checked the screenshot I took of the options ages ago, and it is not specifically mentioned that permanent alliances are disabled, so I guess they are on.

[Gaspar]

Actually, if Alliances were enabled, you would see that on the Options screen. The checkbox is unchecked by default in a normal game, and looks like so:



So if the option were enabled, you'd see this:



Not sure why I felt compelled to start a game and create screenshots to answer that simply question, but there it is.

Good luck!

[Tatan]

Weird, vassal states as an option must be turned OFF, but Permanent Alliances ON. Well, anyway, thanks Gaspar!

Warning: sleep-deprived ramblings start... now!

So... I've been putting this off because I never feel like I have enough time to be able to write something complete, but diplomacy seems to have suddenly began sucking up a lot more time in these games, and my exams are coming up soon, so it's now or never.

I sided with Serdoa. [sorry Adlain!] Reader's Digest Justification [believe me, it really is!]: I saw the choice as being between me getting wiped out by Cyneheard and Serdoa, and me only getting mauled by Cyneheard. True, this takes away most of my chances of success; but did I really even have any before I made the deal? Besides, right now there are basically three factions:
-Mackoti
-Serdoa
-Cyneheard [and his puppets]

Think of it like The Three Kingdoms [guess who's reading the Romance?!]; I think it's obvious enough who is who []. Individually, Mackoti was actually somewhat stronger [economically] than Cyneheard, but Cyneheard's apparent influence with Ad Hoc and Twinkletoes has meant that only through loose alliance could Serdoa and Mackoti check Cyneheard's power. However, the embargo on Mackoti has stifled his economy significantly, which means that if Cyneheard can successfully conquer me this is a largely decided game. However, by siding with Serdoa, I can prevent that [hopefully!], and if the war goes well enough [and Mackoti uses the opportunity to hurt someone or at least reinvigorate his economy] then the three factions will be somewhat equal to each other. And this brings me to my <1% victory condition: CULTURE! Ha-ha, just kidding, there is no way I'm winning. But, the key thing is that now I will not die, at least not so fast.

To counter Adlain's example [FFHRBPBEM1 SPOILERS]

I think this situation is different. There was no way I could have survived, even if I resisted to the very last [which I was prepared to do]. Cull vassalized to Bob voluntarily, proposing the vassalage when Bob didn't even have Vampires, wasn't knocking on/down Cull's door, and indeed Cull had Pocketbeetle trying to help him! Plus, Cull was siding with someone who was one of the top dogs, and who already had quite enough chance to win the game; I'm siding with Serdoa, thus *giving* him an actual chance for victory while not sacrificing any of my own chances [because they didn't exist!]. I could see the situation being similar if I approached Cyneheard and offered to vassalize, but this? No.

Additionally, this isn't even really a master-vassal situation, it's more of a partnership/alliance. Of course, I am very clearly the junior member of the it, but I do have some say.


Anyway, done with that topic. The turns are getting hazy and blurry in my mind, so I'll just be lazy and post my correspondence with Serdoa; it features most of the necessary information anyway. Serdoa's probably been posting most of these, but I just sent the last one, and it has some cool info in it. [When I say cool I mean ]

Serdoa,
After a LOT of consideration, I have finally come to a conclusion:


I shall happily accept your proposal.

The terms laid out for posterity:
- We agree to an everlasting NAP till the end of the game
- We agree to an everlasting MDP till the end of the game
- The Netherlands will spread the faith of Buddishm in all its cities
- Borders will be kept open forever
- Resources will be traded free of charge and the other one is always the preferred trade partner if he does not have this resource by his own
- Resources can't be requested if the other has only one of it, except for strategic resources
- We will cooperate together in the upcoming war against Cyneheard (through gifting or whatever, we can work it out when the time comes)
- All cities we conquer in wars with Cyneheard will be put under Russian control
- The above does not apply to 2 cities (one of them being the one on that island between you and Cyneheard) we take from Cyneheard which will be put under Dutch control
- The Russians will get Ehrlitan

- No cities will be razed without prior agreement from both parties
- No wars with Mackoti will be started without prior agreement from Russia

[did I get everything?]

I think that this will be greatly beneficial to both of us. I won't be destroyed, *and* I still get to attack someone with East Indiamen! This pretty much cements the loss of any chances of me winning, BUT I really wasn't going to be winning anyway; working together with you, I might at least get to see second place. I don't really see myself winning via culture or anything, so an in-game Permanent Alliance could be in order, if we get that far.

Regarding first point that I had brought up: yeah, I don't really think I'm going to be attacking anyone other than Cyneheard for quite some time, and even after then I would prefer to work together. But I just wanted to know that I had the option to conquer someone else if we ever killed Cyneheard and you wanted to halt war for whatever reason. I'm definitely okay with the provision against attacking Mackoti. Although I'm not exactly an ally with him, we are on friendly terms; I did leak him an email Cyneheard sent to me, TT, and Ad Hoc that was trying to start an embargo against Mackoti [FYI, TT and Ad Hoc agreed to the embargo, so now Mackoti pretty much hates Cyneheard].

Regarding the second point that I had brought up: okay, I understand. I'll send you a screen-shot of what I have revealed of Cynheard's lands next time I get the save.


I suppose now would also be a good time to share plans. I am on track to discover Astronomy at the end of turn 105, and then I plan to grab Feudalism and Theology for Vassalage and Theocracy [with a barracks, that means 3-promo units right out of the gate]. Right now, as you have seen, I have maces and catapults, but not much else; I'll try to be cranking out a lot more of those in the coming turns, along with pikes [and, of course, East Indiamen]. Where are you, tech-wise? [I'm assuming it's going to be a lot better than me]

And, although we are agreeing to peace out-of-game, I would prefer if we held off on doing that in-game for a couple of turns, because I'm still not sure whether Cyneheard knows whether I know that he is going to attack. This will delay the gifting of Ehrlitan for several turns [I'm assuming you want me to gift it to you instead of you capturing it], but I think it is worth it for the opportunity to surprise Cyneheard. Either way, I'll go ahead and begin moving all my troops towards Carthage.

And, finally, I think we should continue to keep this alliance confidential, for obvious reasons. Hopefully, they won't know fully until it is too late...

Sincerely,
your new ally/vassal Tatan

Tatan,

as I wrote before, I am glad that we could finally find a solution and restore peace. I think that both our civilizations will prosper under this treaty. And at least it gave the lurkers something to discuss :D

As for sharing plans: We do have to prepare for the near future as you have a NAP ending at turn 110. I'll put down the next steps as I see them:

- I do need as soon as possible the map of the border region and if possible the number of your troops and where they currently are (if not possible to provide at the same time, send the screenshots when you have them and the infos later).
- I will be sending my Knights up there, but I am not sure right now if I can reach it in time. I will check as soon as I have your maps. If not I will try to hit at an unsuspected spot.
- For your troop composition: I would expect that you face at least some Crossbowmen. I cannot say for sure but just in case - and if you can - put up some Longbowmen as well.
- If you have any information about Cyneheards troops, please let me know (be it which types he can muster, be it how many you've seen).

As soon as I have the informations I will try to come up with a plan to discuss. Maybe I can also get some information from Cyneheard but if so I probably have to agree to not share it with anyone so you might have to believe me sometimes when I say that this or that might be the best course of action - sorry for that.

Ok, I think that is everything I can think of right now regarding the war.

I agree with you to keep this alliance confidential for now. Probably even for some time to come. I also agree with staying at war to deceive our real intentions. Try to not have your troop movements seen

Last point: Tech-wise I have Knights and Crossbowmen. I haven't started on Astronomy but can research it in 4 turns if needed. Probably 3 when Aren comes out of resistance and our war is over. I guess we could just exchange screenies of our tech-trees. Might make it easier to coordinate research a little bit (if you have Astronomy, I don't need to go there now but instead can focus on gettings Cossacks into the game). I probably will go for Alphabet next to see what the others have and find out if I can grab Lib (I guess I can as none has Paper or Philosophy right now and I have already 1 GS for part bulbing Edu).

Kind regards,
Serdoa

[I hope this makes sense, I was in a bit of a rush]

I attached three screenshots, which should give you a good idea of my horrible military. Every other city but my two newish cities is training units right now, and will be for some time, but this is probably going to be the bulk of the units I can field by Turn 110.

It's hard to make out, but there are two iron resources on that skinny island to the northeast, one directly under my city and another two tiles NW; I expect Cyneheard to try something tricky here, such as do a one-move attack with knights or galleys, due to the obvious strategic importance of a four-tile strip which controls both of our only iron resources. Unfortunately I have no way to preemptively counter that because Cyneheard goes first in the turn order, so I was thinking that I should try to pile most of my units here, and then put the rest of them in Axis and Allies [the more southern of the two cities on the square island], leaving only a token garrison in Canasta. I will be researching Feudalism next, so I might be able to get out a few longbows to help with defense. Regarding what troops Cyneheard has, I don't have a lot of information, because we agreed to a "no land unit scouting" clause in our Open Borders way back, but passing ships have noted the presence of knights in his cities, and he seems to be using xbows mostly for city defense [can't remember if I ever saw any maces or longbows]. How many units [and when] will you be able to field?

As for technology... Well, you may notice in the technology screenshot I sent you [BTW could I see yours?], that I'm not exactly doing too great. :| I also lack HBR and Meditation.

If you think you can grab Liberalism, go for it! Word of caution, Mackoti asked a couple turns ago if I would be willing to trade maps when he got Paper, but he never said when that would be. What will you try and grab with it, the usual Nationalism? Or something else?

One last thing, this isn't really relevant yet, but for the two cities I get to keep, do you have a problem with me just taking Calimari and Covenant [the two cities on the square island]? It will certainly make things more tidy.

Annnd, that's all I can think of ATM. If you need any more information, just ask.

-Tatan

Okay. I have examined all information available to me and tried to put it all together:

1.) Cyneheard is the leading power with 633.000 soldier points. Of those I account 80.000 for techs, 56.000 for city improvements and 50.000 for pop (everything estimated of course). That leaves 447.000 points for his army. Some of that will be city garrison, but in the worst case, thats 12 warriors (worth 24.000).
2.) He is charismatic and his civis are Theo and Vassalage. That means his ships have 4xp (2 promos) and his troops can have up to 7xp - 9xp (infantry respectively mounted). Or stated differently: You will be hit with 3 promo Knights.
3.) We have not much information about Cyneheards land and next to no information about his troop composition and where they are.
4.) You have 3 exposed cities.
5.) Your military is rather sad

We unfortunately will have to work with assumptions from here on.

First assumption: He will hit your iron city. I agree with that.
Second assumption: He will probably use Knights for an attack the same turn he declares. I agree with that.
Third assumption: He does not have Engineering. I will probably get Alphabet to make sure this is the case.

Therefore I propose the following: Move some pikes and spears on galleys (judging from the screenie you should be able to have 5 pikes and 1 spear on galleys without issue, though having an additional 2 or 4 more on galleys would be good when I look at the soldier points of Cyneheard - imagine all of that being Knights :/ ). I would put those galleys on the tile 2S/1W of Monopoly. The reason for the galleys is that

1) he surely will have sentry-units and if he sees anti-mounted piled in a city already now he will attack with his mounted units somewhere else
2) as per above, if he sees those units, he will know that something is afoul, because he knows that I use Knights against you, so why would you pour your anti-mounted in a "save" city?
3) most importantly: I think I can have a sentry unit 1N of Axis and Allies soon and therefore will hopefully be able to spot what he has on the island on T110 (if he wants to be able to attack either Canasta or Axis and Allies on the same turn as the war dec he needs a mounted stack on the tile 1N of Covenant at EOT110). If I find a mounted stack there you can unload the troops on the galleys into Canasta and move them into Axis and Allies within the same turn - being EOT110. If I don't find anything, you unload them into Monopoly.

This will at least give you a chance to hold Monopoly and Axis and Allies and at the most lose a size 3 city. And if he does, then we should hopefully be able to kill those troops. But that goes to far for now, we'll have to see then.

Speaking about my stack: I believe I have 8-12 units (4 Knights at least) on the way which should arrive between T109-T111. I would have 14 more Knights to go, but I have not enough galleys unfortunately. Though I'll tell you as soon as I get the next turn what exactly you'll get. Anyway, there should be a bunch of units 1N of Axis and Allies, one of them being sentry, latest on T109, so that the sentry can look on T110 whats going on. It's not great that we stay at war unfortunately, as I am not able to simply strenghten your defenses with my troops this way. And you cannot agree to peace and open borders on the same turn unfortunately, so my units would get kicked out if we agreed to peace after I unloaded them. And if we agree to peace earlier... well, thinking about that, what happens if we agree to peace and you gift Ehrlitan? Would your troops in Ehrlitan get kicked over to your mainland? And if so, would you be able to get them over to your cities in time? I never understood how that mechanic exactly worked. :/ Not sure if it would be good to declare peace anyway (I told Cyneheard I would stay at war with you till T111 to get some info from him) but I would be nice to know the options.

However, on to your other questions:

1. I am not sure what I would grab with Lib - probably either Nat or Astronomy. Depends how long I would have before someone else could research it.
2. I don't think I would have a problem with you taking those cities. Though, lets first get to the point of actually going on the offense
3. I send you a screenshot of the technology if you want, but you are not as far behind as you think. I do have all techs till the column with Nationalism except for

- Alphabet
- Engineering
- Philo
- Theo
- Divine Right
- Paper

Banking is nearly finished.

So you are behind Medi, Priesthood, Aesth, Lit, Drama, Music, Feud, Guilds (and halfway Banking) and up Astro and Engineering. As those are two expensive techs you are nearly equal with me in beakers I think.

And I guess that covers all for now.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

Tatan,

short update on the troops:

- 10 Knights
- 1 Cat
- 1 LB

At least I think it was a LB, could be a Crossbow as well, but I guess the 10 Knights are more important anyway . 6 of them will land T110 on the tile 1SW/1S of Axis and Allies, showing me what he has with my sentry. On T111 I either hit a stack of his or Covenant. Depends what he has where.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

Hey, Serdoa.

Okay, sorry I've been a bit AFK, I hope this message makes sense because it's pretty late where I am...

So your plan sounds good to me if I understand it correctly. I've been moving units over towards my border cities, I actually have a fair amount hanging around, just not nearly enough if Cyneheard's power is any indication. He's been acting suspicious lately, so I think he knows that I know that he will declare war [if that makes any sense]. I am trying to keep as many troops in the galleys as possible, although I did have to unload a few troops in A&A. I just whipped/built 5 East Indiamen, though, so that should no longer be a problem. However, bad news: Cyneheard took control of the tile 1NW of Monopoly, and already has a worker roading it [so subtle], so he can hit the city with siege on turn 0 of the war. I'm really not sure how to handle that; I could whip a Castle, which will at least slow him down, or I could just evacuate troops at the last minute and resettle the city after counter-attacking his forces or something, I dunno. Suggestions to an MP n00b are welcome. Cyneheard also expanded borders up to my previous ocean territory, meaning the galley rally point 2S1W of Monopoly is visible [Cyneheard has Optics]. I have begun to gather galleys 1NW of Genabarris [3S1W of Monopoly], where East Indiamen could still move out in one turn from. Galleys would have to move one turn in advance, though.


FYI, two things with Mackoti. One, I think I mentioned this before but I agreed to a map trade with him while we were still at actual war; well, he just discovered Paper, so I proposed the trade. I'll send you his map when you get Paper.

Second, Mackoti caught me on chat the other day. Summary of chat [warning, this is from memory, because Yahoo doesn't save these]:
-Mackoti would like to attack TT, but has a NAP with him until Turn 125.
-He's also a little scared of you, especially if you acquire more land, because of the Representation economy; however, in emails before he has said that he doesn't want to attack you because of Meatbalz's previous deals. Also, see next point:
-Mackoti really, really wants revenge on Cyneheard. In fact, he said that he would be getting Frigates/Privateers in roughly ~10-15 turns, and volunteered to attack and raze some of Cyneheard's southern cities [!]. This does conflict with the "you get all but two of Cyneheard's cities" clause, but I wasn't really sure how I could refuse without acting suspicious; and we could very well need the help anyway.
-Finally, presumably to go with the previous point, Mackoti tried to work out a deal for some East Indiamen, and we agree to the following:

=>Mackoti sails two galleys up, gifts them to me
=>I upgrade them with my own money [should be 160 gold], sail them back to be gifted to Mackoti
=>In return, Mackoti also gives three triple-promo Camel Archers over with the galleys, to be used against Cyneheard.
That seemed like a good deal at the time, but now it seems pretty lackluster to me... however, I am not willing to break my word, and hopefully Mackoti will be using those Indiamen against Cyneheard anyway. BTW, he said that he would tell you about this, because he was afraid that I would use the Camel Archers against you, so, uh, yeah. [I guess that also means that he suspects nothing if he fears me using them against you]


Lastly, two more things:
-I finally realized that I was still spending EPs against you [sorry!], and switched them to TT [I would switch to Cyneheard, but we have had a long-standing EP-limit of 43 against each-other].
-I discovered Feudalism at End of Turn, and I plan to go Theology next for Vassal-ocracy [not sure when I will revolt yet].

Hope I'm making sense,
-Tatan

And before someone points it out, yes, since that one message I have in fact realized that Theo+Vassalage+Barracks will still only grant 7exp, still not enough to pull a Charismatic-immediate-triple-promote. However, naval units will be able to double-promote, stables would give mounted units 9exp if I ever build them, and Mott has the GG specialist for that extra +2exp on all units, enough for triple-promos on all land units.

[Adlain]

Not that i can say much about updating threads ATM, but i would love to hear whats happening atm Tatan

[Tatan]

Yeah, yeah, sorry; it's just that the diplo in this game has suddenly become so much more time-intensive that I keep forgetting to leave time for the actual reports ["okay, now I just have to slap a few screenshots on my thr- why is it 1 AM?!"]. The game is currently on Turn 109 [although I have only played Turn 108], and the NAP with Cyneheard goes up through Turn 110, so I have two turns left to prepare.

I discovered Astronomy a couple turns back, and I just discovered Feudalism at the end of Turn 107, too; research going into Theology right now for an eventual revolt, although I don't really know when that will be. After that, the [really rough] plan is to grab Guilds, and then head towards Nationalism, which would help me go into Overdrive Mode [yes, I know this sort of defeats the purpose of going into Vassalage; this is all really sketchy]. Drafting muskets is the eventual goal [Rifling is like infinity turns away for me right now].



My military. It looks pitiful, especially considering everyone elses' power looks like, but it'll have to do. I can expect knights from Serdoa, hopefully ten arriving at A&A just in time to weather the initial assault. This is one of the times when I really hate going last in the turn order, because there is quite literally nothing I can do whatsoever to preempt Cyneheard. Seriously, my position would a fair bit more secure if I could do some suicide chariot-pillaging right about now. But enough lamenting!

So here's a picture of the front:



Notice how I idiotically managed to let Cyneheard gain control of the culture of that tile 1NW of Monopoly, which allows him to one-move me with siege.

Summary of unit positioning:

Now, onto the actual troop composition that I have right now. If you look at the screenie creatively named, "NW_Front", here are the troops in all the different places:
-Delta has an EI with two chariots, and I have two pikes completing next turn which will also load into the EI.
-The garrison of A&A, which I couldn't fit into my ships, is one mace, one pike, one ax, one archer, and two cats.
-The garrison of Canasta is one mace, one archer, and a spear.
-Alpha has two galleys, which contain two maces, a chariot, and a spear.
-Beta has an EI with two pikes and two cats.
-Monopoly has a garrison of two maces, two spears, two archers, an xbow, a pike, and a trireme. I'll whip the castle ON turn 110, so it completes at the end of turn immediately before Cyneheard attacks.
-Finally, Galley Rally is obviously where I have chosen to place the bulk of my navy. It has an EI with three pikes [fourth will load next turn], and four galleys with a total of three maces, four cats, and a spear. The units here should not be visible to Cyneheard, although he could conceivably be pulling some sort of Sentry shenanigans or something.

So, here's the [reeeeally rough] plan: I try an figure out where Cyneheard is planning to attack by suicidally moving the trireme Pokey Paul out of Monopoly either 1N1NW or 1W1NW, and then I will be able to see whether Cyneheard has a massive army of units in his iron city [still don't know the name]. Additionally, one of Serdoa's incoming knights will be sentry, and can have a look around Cyneheard's forces on Block Island, the inconsistently named. The units at Galley Rally will then reposition accordingly. This plan still has a number of weaknesses, the biggest being the fact that Cyneheard could keep his stack out of sight in a fleet, move, unload in the iron city, and then attack. But this plan allows me to commit my army mostly in one place, which is the only way I can ever have a hope of combatting Cyneheard's u83r-1337 forces. What I'm hoping for is that Cyneheard mis-calculates and doesn't have sufficient forces to take Monopoly after I get that Castle built. You'll notice my forces have a significant amount of anti-mounted units in them; I expect Cyneheard to be using a lot of knights, seeing as he's had them for a while, they are the most powerful offensive unit right now [disregarding the catapult], and using them he can one-move both A&A AND Canasta. So, yeah. This pic doesn't really give a good idea of what I'm doing elsewhere, so let me summarize: WAR. Also, ironically, the impending wars have helped a lot with building tile improvements, now that my workers have been forced back to the mainland. Daru has grown a size for the first time in ages.


Diplomacy has been interesting. Person-by-person break-down:
-Ad Hoc
No contact.

-Twinkletoes
Contact, but it was all back-and-forth banter over PBEM4.

-Cyneheard
He called my bluff about the embargo one or two turns ago:

Three turns now? Just admit that you're not going to actually close borders with him.

Aw man, it was sooo tempting to respond with, "Refusing a NAP extension three times now? Just admit that you're not going to actually stay at peace with me."
But obviously that was out, so I just sent along an extra smiley face with the following turn. SURELY CHEER AND GOOD SPIRITS WILL HELP ME WIN HIM BACK OVER, AMIRIGHT?

-Serdoa
We been talking a LOT, much of it along the lines of:
Serdoa: "Hey, can I see a pic of the front?"
Tatan: "Here ya go."
Serdoa: "LOL your screwed."
Naturally, he's right on the money, as always. He's said that he has Paper and is going for Liberalism, although he is unsure of what to grab yet. We've held off going through with actual peace until Serdoa is in position to battle Cyneheard, in order to obtain maximum shock and disgust.

-Mackoti
We've been talking a fair bit, too. Did I ever mention that Mackoti had said that he was going for Paper, too, and wanted a map trade? Well, anyway:



Notice that unsettled gems there in the top right, which is mildly puzzling.

Oh, and Mackoti caught me for a chat on Saturday. Background information: I am horrible a chats. Seriously. I freeze up and have no idea of what to say, and thus I panic. It's wierd: I can email people fine, and I can have RL conversations with no difficulty at all [i no rite?!], but I just don't really do well in chats. That's one advantage of using Yahoo: everyone else is on Gmail, so they can't find me!

Seriously, though, point: Well, we had a looong chat, which went all over the place, and which I totally can't post here because Yahoo doesn't save chats [what was that about using Yahoo over Gmail? :rolleyes:], but summary [also quoted from an email to Serdoa, but altered for syntax]:

-Mackoti would like to attack TT, but has a NAP with him until Turn 125.
-He's also a little scared of [Serdoa], especially if [Serdoa] acquires more land, because of the Representation economy; however, in emails before [Mackoti] has said that he doesn't want to attack [Serdoa] because of Meatbalz's previous deals. Also, see next point:
-Mackoti really, really wants revenge on Cyneheard. In fact, he said that he would be getting Frigates/Privateers in roughly ~10-15 turns, and volunteered to attack and raze some of Cyneheard's southern cities [!]. This does conflict with the "[Serdoa] gets all but two of Cyneheard's cities" clause, but I wasn't really sure how I could refuse without acting suspicious; and we could very well need the help anyway.
-Finally, presumably to go with the previous point, Mackoti tried to work out a deal for some East Indiamen, and we agree to the following:
=>Mackoti sails two galleys up, gifts them to me
=>I upgrade them with my own money [should be 160 gold], sail them back to be gifted to Mackoti
=>In return, Mackoti also gives three triple-promo Camel Archers over with the galleys, to be used against Cyneheard.
That seemed like a good deal at the time, but now it seems pretty lackluster to me... however, I am not willing to break my word, and hopefully Mackoti will be using those Indiamen against Cyneheard anyway. BTW, he said that he would tell [Serdoa] about this, because [Mackoti] was afraid that I would use the Camel Archers against [Serdoa], so, uh, yeah. [I guess that also means that he suspects nothing if he fears me using them against [Serdoa]]

Serdoa did point out that using Camel Archers would directly implicate Mackoti against Cyneheard, but Mackoti will probably be joining in one way or the other anyway, if he's so desperate to attack Cyneheard that he will attack the oppositie side of the world [which I think is pretty silly, but HEY, I am NOT complaining ]. Also not there is the fact that Mackoti shared with me that he is more than a bit suspicious of Twinkletoes, on the condition of non-disclosure. Anyway, after the map trade went through Mackoti said that he didn't realize that we were so far away, and that his galleys would not be able to get to me in a reasonable time-frame [will take ~10 turns]. Consequently, he offered to cancel the deal if I wanted to, which I prolly will [unless you think there's something that I'm missing, Adlain?].


Anyway, this is what is happening in the world. I hope this blossoms into a full-scale World War, Serdoa/Me/Mackoti vs Cyneheard/TT/Ad Hoc, if only to please the lurkers.


Also, while this might be a tad premature [and turn out to be incredibly ironic in retrospect], I feel that I made the right choice regarding Serdoa; I haven't lost a city in what, five turns now?! :D

[Adlain]

personaly i would take the camel archers, if we are taking a pounding, afew of them could help us defend a city or 2 while we build our own forces back up - and hell, if it makes Cyneheard think we are in a 3 team alliance, maybe he will be more cautious with his troop deployments than if he thinks we are alone