Luddite/Pindicator

[luddite]

So they're upset because some relative trifle didn't go their way in a game where they're running away to a sure win? Cry me a river.

Wait, which pbem is this again?

Could describe every single mp civ game ever.

[pindicator]

Ah, this reminds me of why I got out of working Customer Service. I am honestly doing my best to resolve the situation (edit: better way of saying it is that I honestly want to see the situation resolved so everyone can go back to having fun playing a game).

[pindicator]

Heh, I can stop if you don't want us to continue cross posting

What I really want to say to the org thread: "Peoples! Lighten up!"

[pindicator]

Luddite and I are chatting: better that we divert our energy towards each other than continuing to inflame the org thread. But I had to share this part of our conversation, as it seems like a very relevant larger question about diplo / no diplo games:

Pindicator: i guess i like the idea of giving mackoti the choice of going for us or going for the leader
which is funny considering i wanted to bog him down into a loss just a day ago
but that was pre tantrum

Luddite: haha yeah
and this is supposed to be a "no diplo" game lol
and yet, it's determined even more heavily by diplomacy

Pindicator: i find it wonderfully ironic that no diplo is exactly what caused this mess :D

Luddite: haha yeah

Pindicator: i felt no diplo was a bit of an illusion anyway. you're playing against people, not computers. in every game from chess to basketball to scrabble, psychology and interaction is at the heart of the game

Luddite: yeah, exactly!
i was hoping we could coast with no military for a while longer
and, obviously that was wrong
but it was totally just a psychological guess, not anything civ related

Pindicator: well, i think we had to make that risk to catch up

Luddite: yeah, definitely

Pindicator: but you're right, we were guessing on the psychology of our oponents and guessed wrong, sadly

Luddite: i don't really see what else we could have done
if we had guarded all our cities with 5 longbows it would have just been a slow death

[pindicator]

Told you they'd want to attack us. Predictable behavior like that is gonna lose them a game one of these days. That is if they weren't such a monster in the micro field that they'd have competition for it.

[pindicator]

Now that I've stirred up the hornets nest, it's time to start thinking about how to defend against NoSpace's attack. We have 9 turns to prepare. I imagine we'll get a little bit more of real-time before they either decide to move on, or even longer if it takes the other teams inputting on it. But that's some time to come up with a plan. At this point, even if they get the gold they are going to be coming after us.

Here's another instance where I'm glad I save the last turn right before ending it. You want me to send you a copy of that save, partner?

[pindicator]

I'm going to post here because I've said my piece in the org thread and further posting there is going to just hinder things rather than help:

Your trash talk is both uncalled for and hilariously off target.

Probably true. They've gotten under my skin, I'll admit it. Hence my appeals for outside voices.

Of course it's about the principle - the gold in itself is meaningless. Twisting your arm now to get a replay or compensation wouldn't mean a thing though. You apparently feel that accepting both peace-for-city offers was sporting, whereas accepting the two compatible peace offers was unrealistic. If I understand you correctly your course of action was made more sporting by the fact that it better preserves the game balance.

Well, I was trying to convey that we're still planning on fighting in game rather than just throwing in the towel. It was very tempting to just throw in the towel but we thought it was more sporting to play the game like we were still trying rather than throwing in the towel.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree about the game mechanics here, or what's sporting.

We disagree strongly. We're not holding the save hostage, though. We just need to decide if we want to play on in a game where your actions are considered to be in good faith.

I hope they consider to keep playing. I think it's laughable that they'd even consider quitting over it. Like throwing away your dinner because the drink tasted bad.

But then again, that's why I'm posting that here and not in the org thread. Maybe my palette isn't as refined as some.

[zakalwe]

Well, since you keep soliciting opinions from outsiders I'll say this: you do have a very inflammatory way of arguing. If you disagree about what constitutes reasonable game mechanics you should just focus on that rather than ending every second sentence with "besides, you deserve to get shafted anyway".

Maybe they should be more magnanimous from a winning position, but to be blunt, you are really giving off a sore loser vibe.

[pindicator]

Thank you for the perspective. If that's the effect I've given off then I've failed in my argument and perhaps it's better I keep quiet. I guess I see it as a reasonable game mechanic and not the effect of someone getting shafted.

I apologize for coming across this way, and now I think I need to send notice, spacemanmf, and sevenspirits an apology after things have cooled a little bit. It's probably best that I remove some of the more inflamatory things in the spoiler thread, too. I've think I've used this spoiler thread too much as a personal venting board and it will probably just reopen wounds when they get to read it.

[luddite]

I know I haven't exactly given a calm and reasonable argument. Mostly I just find this whole thing so offensive, it's hard me to be reasonable. All they're doing is saying that "we obviously cheated!" and, well, we didn't. At this point it's just purely emotional for me and it's hard to think clearly.