( No Players )[Lurker Thread] CIV VI PBEM19 Beginner

[Kaiser]

Map update:

thank you for your suggestions so far, I implemented the following changes
- 4 luxuries (Silver, Marble, Jade, Mercury, Olives) near the expected borders 2 in each player direction
- replaced all Gypsum with 1 tile Natural Wonders Tsingy, Matterhorn, Crater Lake, Ik kill, Mato Tipila (my wife pointed out that the Eye in the Sahara is difficult to find)
- changed continents (All players start on the same continent, the desert is a separate continent, all island CS are different continents)
- rechecked capital food situation and adjusted
- rechecked territory food situation and adjusted
- added more desert hills in the desert to slow down somebody passing through a CS in the early game eventually stumbling on 4 other CS
- more campus locations for Player 2 and Player 3




Player 1




Player 2



Player 3




Player 4



Player 5

[suboptimal]

Changes look OK to me....maybe see if Woden has any further suggestions?

I'll post the civ lists to the player threads once I get my PBEM 18 turn played (should have that done around 6pm EDT).

[Woden]

My comment is first and second ring at the capital. Player 1 has 2 3-food tiles (marsh rice and grassland cows) first ring versus player 5 is limited to a few 2 food tiles and a second ring marsh sugar. Growth is king in the first 20 turns. I would at least make sure everybody has at least 1 3-food tile first ring.

Edit: Looks at your changes and looks more balanced.

[suboptimal]

I am posting here to not give away any information, but for ljubljana's sake, I think the map is already advanced enough that him posting his general strategy will influence it any more.

FWIW I did get a PM from him this evening expressing concern that he screwed up or breached forum etiquette by with his post.  My reply is below but is essentially "you did nothing wrong".

---

Nope...you haven't done anything wrong.  Players are entitled to engage in any speculation about civs or the map that they want within their threads.  Likewise, I believe the "forum contract" between the mapmakers/lurkers and the players during game setup is that the map will penalize or benefit all players equally.  A map isn't going to be edited specifically in reaction to one player's pregame speculation.

[Kaiser]

Thank you Woden, I rechecked and adjusted 2nd Ring tiles without going for perfect symmetry. Player 2 still has the best food start due to the GMarshSugar being first ring.
I did some starting screenshots for you guys to check.
If we conclude that the map is ready:
- shall we give these to the players so they can take their starting position into account?
- do you think it better for them to decide without prior map knowledge? (Nubia, Mali are lacking desert for example, Brazil will be only interesting for Player 2 and 4 ...)
- should we ask them if they want to see their screenshot before deciding?

Should I remove the ice from Player 1's starting screeny?

Player 1

Player 2


Player 3

Player 4

Player 5

[Kaiser]

Thrawn has messaged me that he is picking Nubia, somebody is eager to play :D

I told him that I will note that here (done) but that he can also redecide.
I also realized that the best course would be asking the players if they want the starting screenshots, so I am going ahead asking the question.
Can somebody please randomize the players on the above starting positions?

[suboptimal]

I think the ice tile in Player 1's start should be removed.

Random.org gave me the following list:

1) Ljubljana
2) Ioan76
3) The Archduke
4) Chevalier Mal Fet
5) Thrawn

[MJW (ya that one)]

With us using worldbuilder so much it should be considered the default and Maori should come off my main list, so we get:

Always Banned:

Civs:
-Hungry (+2 move, on a civ that can actually get it OP)
-Colombia (ditto)
-Australia (implicit collusion makes it very likely they can trigger their ability; which gives far too much. Archduke suggests just no tactical DoW on Australia but I don't like that because you tactical DoW civs like Persia anyway and eating you neighbor is how you win games in Civ6 anyway due to no corruption system so doing anything to stop your opponents eating feels extremely natural. So I don't blame people wanting to deny conquest and tactical DoWing, I blame the civ for being OP)
-Scythia (2x production on horse units; they don't have to deal with not having them thanks to their UU)

Other:
-Venetian Arsenal (Despite removal of overflow tricks: OP because of 2x production on common units; expect on land-only but it doesn't make sense to unban them for that)
-Religious Settlements Pantheon (Free settler OP; Settler>>>Builder)
-Nan Madol (gives way too much culture expect land-only and doesn't make sense to unban them just for that)
-No pillaging City States except for farms and fishing boats (trade routes don't count). (You can get way too much gold by pillage-farming city-states and this removes it. Woden suggests a rule that says 'no pillage-farming city-states' but I don't think that cuts it because you can just fail to take out the city-state on purpose.)

Banned on non-worldbuilder maps: Maori (messes things up)
Banned on duels and random maps: Sumer (warcart too strong if you cannot react)
Banned on desert map: Lady of the R&M (best pantheon on that map and it's just dumb luck who gets it because pantheons happen before anyone can do anything; it's giving players free stuff for no reason like that free great artist sullla got in civ4 pb6)

[MJW (ya that one)]

Maori would be one the "brat pack" civs. OP but not an instant win like Hungry, Colombia and Scythia or extremely annoying Australia.

Russia, Nubia, Rome and Maori brat pack! They would be nice for a handicap game but rome should be picked so we already had the handicap game ! Maybe we should not allow them so other civs get played?

[MJW (ya that one)]

I don't know how strong Cree are. On an "el dorado" map they are on par with the brat pack civs but i don't know if banned ...