(September 26th, 2024, 01:56)Gavagai Wrote: Is it just me or Green is fucked in Seven? Just too small expansion space compared to others.
That is indeed how green is shafted in that map. Blue is the piggy in the middle, black is isolated and orange has pretty dry surroundings (and likely to be rushed by green). It is a very different map that the players are unlikely to expect, but also pretty brutal.
I really like the idea of giving everyone their own type of challenge but I think Black's position is by far superior to others.
And yes, be ready for people to complain. In particular, wherever you put Superdeath on Seven, he will be bitching about that with some justification.
Here's a wild idea - leave Black and Green as-is and split Superdeath/Dreylin that way. Whichever one gets the Tough Continent gets Black as compensation, while the other gets Green on the Easy Continent.
(September 26th, 2024, 01:56)Gavagai Wrote: Is it just me or Green is fucked in Seven? Just too small expansion space compared to others.
That is indeed how green is shafted in that map. Blue is the piggy in the middle, black is isolated and orange has pretty dry surroundings (and likely to be rushed by green). It is a very different map that the players are unlikely to expect, but also pretty brutal.
I really like the idea of giving everyone their own type of challenge but I think Black's position is by far superior to others.
And yes, be ready for people to complain. In particular, wherever you put Superdeath on Seven, he will be bitching about that with some justification.
Here's a wild idea - leave Black and Green as-is and split Superdeath/Dreylin that way. Whichever one gets the Tough Continent gets Black as compensation, while the other gets Green on the Easy Continent.
So, I wasn't going to mirror the two continents, and I don't like pre-placing players, but this is a pretty nifty idea. I do think I'd rather mirror (and flip-upside down) Map 10 though.
Ah, you know for some reason it had not fully clicked with me that we were looking for two different continents, not one that would be mirrored. I had been assuming the latter all along.
Speaking of the SD/Dreylin thing, should we do a proper poll, or are you going to make the call taking the feedback here into account? Seems like there was a pretty even split.
Regarding the SD/Dreylin placement, I'm pretty sold on this argument by Gav:
(September 13th, 2024, 15:41)Gavagai Wrote: For this particular game, I think it is important that whoever we put on the same continent as mjmd and TBS wouldn't just get run over even before the knights era. I think chances for that with SD and Nauf are reasonably low, with Dreylin - I am not so sure.
I think Dreylin himself said it pretty well actually:
(September 14th, 2024, 13:31)Dreylin Wrote: I feel like Superdeath & I are roughly the same level, thought it's a bit hard to tell since he doesn't report reliably. Our main difference I think is that he defaults aggressive while I default passive. That probably favours him so might knock him to a slightly higher spot than myself.
Superdeath does actually have quite good instincts, he just doesn't respond very well to things not going according to plan. In the end I think he's more likely to both dominate the green continent and survive on the veteran continent.
yeah, in addition to gav's arguments which i still favor, given that drey expects themself to be on the green continent (and therefore wouldn't be hurt by it)..... well, SD might not like its ramifications for THIS game, but they have been playing hard and playing well (imo) for the last while now and deserve the props of being considered as "high-skill" by the community
I think it's correct that SD is more likely to not be Free Food on the vet island, which I think is the most important consideration.
I was half-serious initially, but thinking about it, I do think it's worth placing SD on the most-desirable start and Dreylin on the least-desirable start on the Strong and Weak continents respectively. I think it's within the bounds of this game even if it wasn't explicitly spelled out. But I think the two of them are clearly in a tier below/above the others. I would not explicitly buff/nerf any starts with this in mind of course, I just mean after finishing all starts, place them on their respective continents and then randomize the rest. Is this absurd to consider?
A can easily be improved by swapping the wheat 1N
B is a pretty hard start and does need some tweaks; the easiest is to move the fish into the bay, but can also swap it for a floodplain wheat, or just be boring and remove the floodplains for another food
C & D might be a bit too green?
D actually had 4 floodplains, but that was a bit too much.
Start B is by far the most wacked-out start I've ever made, so I'll happily change that if people think it's too much. It's also the start that has the islands
Thoughts prior to reading whatever Tarkeel wrote in the spoiler section. I'll also spoiler mine so as to not influence anyone else looking at this blind and giving feedback.
A: Seems fine. It has no first ring food, so it will be delayed 1T working any food relative to the rest. However, this start has so many other things going for it that I think it's probably fine. For example, it has 6 riverside cottage tiles, 2 lighthouseable lakes, only 2 tiles taken up by bare ocean, and that Wheat will go +1F in the midgame. Its one weakness is no first ring food, which definitely weakens its start. Otherwise it would be the best start I think.
B: I think comfortably the weakest start. That Fish takes 3T longer to hook than if it was first ring and 2T longer than every other players seafood due to travel times. Wild idea: Delete the flat plains tile 1NW of capital, then add land 2W and 2W-S. This will adjust the Fish to second ring, still keep a cool bay, while also giving this spot +1 land tile. Anyway, I don't think the two floodplains make up for only two foods, and also as it stands this spot has 7 bare ocean tiles in it.
(Also, it appears the tile the settler is on is like floodplains'd or something? Is that intentional?)
C: This one seems fine, though not as strong as A/D I think. The main thing it has going for it is flatland first ring food, so no burning of worker turns getting first food online. Lots of ocean and limited riverside tiles limits the long-term power here.
D: I think this is the best start. First ring food for easy hook, Wheat is irrigated, tons of riverside tiles for extra commerce, limited bare ocean, etc. I think it's a good call giving this one Clams instead of Fish to limit the power a bit.
If we're trying to balance all 4 as close as possible, I think B seems to need the most help. Though it may mostly boil down to just bringing the Fish way closer.
One thing Scooter brought up earlier is adjusting the starts to the players. I think this map (10) could be the green continent, and if we give Dreylin the island start and slightly weaken start D (and possibly A) the rest can be randomized.
I still like map 7 for the veteran continent, and we can then put TBS in the small green start and SD on the isolated black start, and randomize the last two.
