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SevenSpirits Wrote:Well, two people have 8 land tiles rather than 9.
2 MFG and 8 land tiles actually makes sense for someone who moves to the SW plains hill. But someone only has 4 food; that means they moved away from the corn but not onto a plains hill.
If both of Sandover/Serdoa moved to the plains hill, then whoever worked the forest is either just being dumb, or moved away from the corn but not onto a coast (e.g. 1E), which is weird.
Alternately, only one of Sandover/Serdoa moved to the plains hill, and the other one moved to somewhere two moves away from the initial site, with one water tile, and not adjacent to the corn (I guess NW-W?). If the starts are truly mirrored though, that would be dumb and unexpected.
Do you have the t1 demographics? That could tell us whether the player working the forest is someone who didn't settle t0.
My understanding is that the starts are roughly equivalent/balanced but not identical. So figuring out what might result in the demos is helpful but can't be compared exactly to our (can I say our?) start. I am going to assume 8000 land means someone did in fact settle in such a way to get 8 land tiles.
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Glad my thoughts on Gaspar were of some use 
How about counties of England: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_cou...f_counties for cities & for units you could do monarchs of england - military units working forward from the Normans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eng...f_Normandy and workers working backwards from the last pre-Norman Conquest kings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eng...nd_time.29 until you got bored of naming them? (Not only am I British, but I like history and I've been playing a lot of Crusader Kings lately & I think it's infected my brain  )
Otherwise, if you really want to reward me, just call a city Mousetrap (which is my other nickname after pling, and less obvious than naming it pling)
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dazedroyalty Wrote:My understanding is that the starts are roughly equivalent/balanced but not identical. So figuring out what might result in the demos is helpful but can't be compared exactly to our (can I say our?) start.
Well, if we can use this information to prove that the starts are not mirrored, that's pretty useful. (And if we can't prove that, it's a good hint that they are.) We do know that the whole map is not mirrored, but our BFC and surrounding lands are extraordinarily bereft of sites that are significantly better than other ones. If all our own options are so well balanced with each other it's a good chance they are also closely balanced with our opponents' options, and a limited mirror is one possible method of doing that.
My own guess is that the terrain isn't mirrored, but the closely available resources are.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:My own guess is that the terrain isn't mirrored, but the closely available resources are.
I agree!
(If I can't contribute new intelligent posts, I can atleast keep our thread count up!)
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Here's T1 Demos: (Sandover and Serdoa had not yet settled)
![[Image: t1_demos.JPG]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/PBEM14/t1_demos.JPG)
Got some things going on right now but I had a 2-3 minutes to post the T1 demos real quick. I'll post more later.
Oh yes - to whoever asked the question "can I say ours" - yes! Dazed, SS, and Pling all officially have permission to refer to themselves as a part of this team. As if you needed my permission. 
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Cool. We can see that someone is working a forest there due to the best MFG of 2. Their GNPs are probably 19 and 16, 19 only being possible by working the corn.
My guess (just a guess!):
19 GNP is Lewwyn researching Animal Husbandry.
16 GNP is Gaspar researching Agriculture and working a forest.
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Okay, so I was looking again at the T2 demos and something really caught my eye:
![[Image: t2_demos_health.JPG]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/PBEM14/t2_demos_health.JPG)
Why does someone have a health of 71?? My understanding is that number is basically the ratio of health:health + unhealth... So 3 health and 1 unhealth = 75%. I have 8 health and 1 unhealth, which comes out to 88.8%, which rounds down to 88 life expectancy. I ran some numbers for 71, and the best I could figure is 8 health + 3 unhealth, which comes out to just over 72, which isn't precise, but it's as good as I can figure. So why does someone have 3 unhealth? The only logical thing I can think of is Floodplains.
But wait. There's more. On the T1 demos, the lowest health is much higher than 71... So 71 has to be Serdoa or Sandover. My conclusion is that either Serdoa or Sandover moved away from their start so they could start on some floodplains, which would explain the unhealth.
Any thoughts? Is there any other explanation for this? Also seems strange that they would have floodplains so close to their start, as I'm obviously seeing nothing that nice around here. I'm definitely no expert on demographic reading, but I'm curious if I've nailed this or not.
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5/7 rounds to 71%, so it is that. The two unhealth does seem to require flood plains. So we are apparently far from mirrored. Good catch!
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scooter Wrote:As far as I can tell, both bodies of water down there are NOT lakes, but rather ocean. Ocean to the north and ocean to our south. Hmm. Some kind of peninsula maybe? Wouldn't make sense though, as both east and west appear to be getting bigger on both directions. I can't think of why else we'd have ocean on both sides... Some kinda of Snaky Continents map maybe? Not sure what to think exactly.
High Sea Level makes me think Archipelago (not for any good reason, just that's the instant association) ... so while we're flinging around map theories on barely any evidence, here's one from me: How about we're all on (reasonably chunky) islands? I guess I mean mini-continents. But that would make it easier to balance non-identical starts if we all have similar resources in reach on our island, and similar numbers of nice city sites, just they're differently nice?
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pling Wrote:High Sea Level makes me think Archipelago (not for any good reason, just that's the instant association) ... so while we're flinging around map theories on barely any evidence, here's one from me: How about we're all on (reasonably chunky) islands? I guess I mean mini-continents. But that would make it easier to balance non-identical starts if we all have similar resources in reach on our island, and similar numbers of nice city sites, just they're differently nice?
I like this theory... We're all on good sized islands, all of which are probably within galley range of each other. This would make a lot of sense why I seem to be seeing ocean to both the north and south of this peninsula. Good thinking.
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