[SPOILERS] Map thread

[SevenSpirits]

Here is the first draft -

Overview:

Asoka of Aztec:

Lincoln of Ethiopia:

Augustus of China:

Kublai of France

I chose those four civ/leader combinations as being mildly synergistic (Asoka the most, since Organized is otherwise fairly boring). The map is only lightly edited: I added a few land connections, merged two almost-big-enough-for-ships bodies of water, moved a copper and made minor edits to the four capitals (which were placed manually).

Notes: 1) I don't think settling in place is an obvious choice for anyone. 2) The starts were not in any way influenced by the leaders/civs (in case that's not utterly obvious).

Please post comment on balance issues! I'm sure the players will appreciate it.

[plako]

East has more land than west and it seems also greener. Ethiopias start looks weaker than others. Lot or brown and not that much land and only one without horses close by. Also France start is a weker than easter civs. Lots of water and their only early happiness resources Ivory is behind the lake.

[SevenSpirits]

Thanks, I will try to fix those.

I do want to point out that Ethiopia (assuming they move 1N which is best I think) have 3 lighthouse-boostable lake tiles which somewhat compensates lack of green. But yeah they need a little help.

[Square Leg]

Is everyone able to settle their capital next to fresh water or only a couple?

[luddite]

In the augustus start, there's a good chance that they might move their warrior onto the forested hill, see the crabs, and settle east to use the crabs. In that case, they'll lose the bonus yield from the horses. Is that intentional?

[scooter]

In the Kublai start, I don't see copper anywhere, and the iron is quite far. Distance wise the iron might be okay, I just wonder that Kublai might naturally scout SE or SW and totally miss the iron up to the NE, since it's more natural to scout towards green land than the tundra.

For Augustus, I don't see copper anywhere.

For Lincoln, I don't see horses.

Asoka's iron is a bit far, however this is probably acceptable since he is Aztec.


As was said, the Ethiopa start is definitely the weakest, and the Asoka start probably the strongest. The real problem with the Ethiopia start isn't just lack of green (though that's true too), but also unequal access to the green land... One possibility to help is to fill in the lake that surrounds them on the NW side with some extra land. The worry I have is that creative Kublai will expand west first, which could pin Ethiopia in quite badly.

[Krill]

Asoka of Aztecs will be a really slow starter. Augustus can grow stupidly large as the only IND civ, starts with best 2 techs and can get henge without much trouble after going worker first and then has IMP to throw out settlers. Kublai of France starts with second best pair of techs and has CRE, plus AGG musketeers which are an absolute bitch to attack into.

TBH, those combos are really not going to be fun to play out if you are on the losing end.

[SevenSpirits]

Is everyone able to settle their capital next to fresh water or only a couple?

Everyone's able to. I don't think it's anyone's best move except - maybe - Aztec.

In the augustus start, there's a good chance that they might move their warrior onto the forested hill, see the crabs, and settle east to use the crabs. In that case, they'll lose the bonus yield from the horses. Is that intentional?

I thought that surely if they see the crab they would move SE to also get the pig. No?

In the Kublai start, I don't see copper anywhere, and the iron is quite far. Distance wise the iron might be okay, I just wonder that Kublai might naturally scout SE or SW and totally miss the iron up to the NE, since it's more natural to scout towards green land than the tundra.

Copper is at the bottom of the screen with no resource bubble (6s of settler). Good enough? There's also a non-jungle gems 1SE of the copper btw.

For Augustus, I don't see copper anywhere.

Uh, oops. I could have sworn I added one.

For Lincoln, I don't see horses.

There's a horse in the first row of tiles cut off in the south. A city on the plains hill 3S1E of his settler would pick it up second ring along with a corn and a fish.

Asoka's iron is a bit far, however this is probably acceptable since he is Aztec.

Noted - I think it's probably acceptable too.

As was said, the Ethiopa start is definitely the weakest, and the Asoka start probably the strongest. The real problem with the Ethiopia start isn't just lack of green (though that's true too), but also unequal access to the green land... One possibility to help is to fill in the lake that surrounds them on the NW side with some extra land. The worry I have is that creative Kublai will expand west first, which could pin Ethiopia in quite badly.

Good point. I'll see what I can change there.

Asoka of Aztecs will be a really slow starter. Augustus can grow stupidly large as the only IND civ, starts with best 2 techs and can get henge without much trouble after going worker first and then has IMP to throw out settlers. Kublai of France starts with second best pair of techs and has CRE, plus AGG musketeers which are an absolute bitch to attack into.

TBH, those combos are really not going to be fun to play out if you are on the losing end.

What does IND have to do with growing large?

Do you have suggestions for making it more balanced? I appreciate the analysis, it's better than just suggestions, but ideally both in combination would be most useful.

[SevenSpirits]

China:
Added northern copper. Moved a corn 2s to weaken an insane possible t2 capital settled on the sugar. Added 4 jungles in their part of the jungle belt (but none orthogonally adjacent to a resource that could be jungled over).

Ethiopia:
Changed some NE and SW sea tiles to grassland and a PH (sea is now barely at 20 tiles). Added a SW river. Added SW forests. Added a SW deer. Replaced a couple NE jungles with forests.

Edit: also attached WBsave.

[scooter]

Do you have suggestions for making it more balanced? I appreciate the analysis, it's better than just suggestions, but ideally both in combination would be most useful.

How about changing Asoka (Spi/Org) to Zara Yakob (Cre/Org). This will give an eary-game boost, making him a more balanced leader.

Ethiopia:
Changed some NE and SW sea tiles to grassland and a PH (sea is now barely at 20 tiles). Added a SW river. Added SW forests. Added a SW deer. Replaced a couple NE jungles with forests.

This looks like it helps. I still have one minor complaint - it's that a forest banana is an obvious edit to me, as bananas never appear in forests. Not the end of the world, but my OCD flipped out a little bit when I saw it.


Edit: Also - for the resources that I couldn't see when I made my comments - yes I think those are all good enough. I just figured I'd rather mention them just in case.