Saddle Up! Pegs Off Again

[Pegasus]

Quick summary over the 25 turns

• 3 Warriors Built
  
• 3 Workers Built - 1 more next turn
  
• 2 Cities
  
• Hunting / AH / BW / Wheel Researched
  
• Met 2 out of 4 of the opposition
  

Plan for the next 25 turns

• 2 to 3 more cities
  
• Prepare some decent defence for any possible onslaught
  
• Pottery / Agriculture / Writing ...... Not sure yet, but will need to go down the Myst path at some point to get to Feudalism
  
  

[Pegasus]

Lets see how I cope with a turn by turn update with us all on with intentions of playing a fair few turns

Turn 26 played

Moved 1 worker onto the Corn only to realise I have not got Agriculture

Moved both workers onto grass hill to mine next turn

Moved workers over by No Name City onto grass hill also to mine there.

Also Peter appears to my east.

Map East

Map West

Demogs

Fired across a quick diplo email also, lets see if I get a response back before next turn

Greetings Mighty Romans,

Welcome to the Eastern borders of Bad Lands, where the life is all good, and the whiskey is flowing!
How goes the lands to the East, I trust they are as fruitful as I have explored?
You are the third civ I have met, I am just missing the Ottomans now.


Peg

Of course what I want to say is Howdy, you dog piling organising scum bag :neenernee

Lets just see how sneeky the response back will be. Of course I am taking Ad's word on this matter. Very crafty if he himself has concoted this up.

[Pegasus]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 27 played[/SIZE]

Repsonse back from Catwalk

Greetings horsey one!


As you have probably ascertained for yourself, my lands are almost entirely like your own. So yes, very fruitful indeed. I have mapped out the entire world (based on replication of the blanks) in Excel, I can send you a copy if you're interested. I'll write more later, my turn is coming up soon and I'll try to forward it smoothly. Are you interested in a short NAP to help found good relations between our fine empires?


Best regards,
Catwalk

Nice offer of a spreadsheet, but I think I know enough of the layout to probably map stitch something together. Oh... and he might be interested in a NAP Probably for about as long as he can get some Praets up and running

My quick response

Hi Catwalk,

Thanks for the offer of the spreadsheet, but I think I too have a good idea of the lay of the lands.
Regarding NAP’s what did you have in mind?
Isn’t it just typical we meet on the day we go crazy on turn playing

Peg

Suppose a short NAP wouldn't hurt me for now, and at least ensures he doesnt do anything stupid with his scouting warrior. But if anything I want to at least tie him up to a NAP well beyond any Praet invasion.

Lets see what he comes back with.

[SIZE="3"]Map[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Demogs[/SIZE]

[Pegasus]

[SIZE="3"][/SIZE]Turn 28 played

First off, I didn't pick it up a few turns back. Ad got Budhism also, that religion hogger

First off the usual stuff

[SIZE="3"]Map[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Demogs[/SIZE]

On the diplo front, here are the latest exchanges between Catrwalk and myself

Is 15 turns your rough guestimate to having Praets up and running then?
I would be happy with this for now though. Would you be interested in a longer term alliance?


Peg

15 turns sound a wee bit optimistic I did consider making a beeline for Iron Working, but decided that it would cost me the game. I would like to keep my long-term options open, at least for tonight while turns are passing by fast. haphazard is doing a really good job lurking me, I'll need his opinion before defining my future relations with any degree of certainty.

Sure, I understand.

Do you agree we have a NAP until your turn 44 then?
I too have a warrior coming up onto your borders over to your east in the next few turns. I would like to head over your NE. Can I get by over your NE without any culture border problems?

NAP until turn 44 it is! I assume that means our NAP expires turn 43? Just making sure I'm not making too many newbie mistakes, don't know how things are usually defined. You should not have any problems crossing my NE, although you'll have to pass north of the lake with crabs (east of the two cows).

So lurkers, safe for the immediate short term, but I can't say I am holding out for much more aftr that. Might be time to start considering ways to tech to Feudalism and Construction ASAP.


And on another diplo front I sent this to Ad, hopefully to sort out his EP shenanigans

Ad,

Greetings you religion hogger. Planning on sharing any with the rest of us?
I have met Catwalk over the last few turns. Funnily enough he wasn’t interested in a long term alliance *cough*.
I wanted to just check to see if you have managed to meet the Ottomans yet? I am currently sending my warrior to the west up and over the Romans to find them.
On another note, I was just wondering if you had any issues with EP points? I seem to have to dedicate 1 per turn to you for your graphs. Do you not have mine yet?



Peg

[Pegasus]

I am not sure what play Catwalk has in mind. Probably tech up to Iron Working and get out some Praets and start causing damage no doubt.
As a player, I know he commented about school, so fairly young. He has started an excellent thread for n00bs, which has had some fantastic input into it already. So kudos for him to go and do that.
On one hand with his selections I see him as an extremely early game threat, but overall I am not considering him to be a problem. You watch that comment come back and haunt me

And then he comes up with a post like this

Just goes to show what I know

[Pegasus]

And a repsonse from Ad.

Just the one religion 4 me this time.

The ottomen have just appeared to my SW so i've met all the civs now.

i havent got your graphs yet just Catwalks, once i get them i'll stop spending. i never really understand how ESP points work so i can't give an explanation

Ad

Oh how I wish I kept at least a log of the scores this game. My C&D is shot to pieces completely and I have absolutely no clue as to who's got what. Not that it was much good in the past, but it's better than what I have now
So an increase in culture means what if he hasn't got Budhism

Possible suggestions are, 2nd city with religion spread or he's got writing up - I suppose I could check the save to see if I can Open borders.

[Pegasus]

So much for a turn a day update

With PBEM27 up and running, I spent quite a bit of time debating what to do in that game, rather than write up these updates.

Anyone reading these anyhow

[SIZE="3"]Turn 29 & 30[/SIZE]


Pottery completed on T30, Agriculture selcted next to farm the corn south of Big Whiskey. Max Tax though at the moment as not enough to research at 100%

Warrior heading west has virtually covered the horizontal axis and is heading NW to meet the Ottomans.

Map

Demogs T29

Demogs T30

Diplo wise I receive this off Catwalk

Greetings big-animal-a-bit-too-big-to-pounce-on


I've conferred with haphazard1, and he suggests that a lot of peace would be in my best interests. He also suggests that an actual alliance proposition is premature, as we're just now getting to the point where we can really see what other players are up to. While my first two settlements are in your general direction (and my fourth probably will be as well), they're not very far from my capital and I don't have my eyes set on the dead man's land in between us. My first expansion is between the copper and the corn, the other is 1N of the horses. My third planned expansion will be to the east, and after that I'm thinking about putting one down west of the dry corn. I hope you will see all of those locations as non-aggressive. So a longer NAP between our fine empires would be greatly appreciated. What kind of duration were you thinking about? Also, while I cannot accept an alliance proposition at this time I'm interested in revisiting the issue later and would certainly like to hear more about your objectives with such an alliance.


Best regards,
Catwalk

Big animal, bit too big to pounce on I wonder if he's judging me on my soldier points

Early peace is wise - going to war early doors will not help anyone, but at some point I suspect he will want to utilise his UU. And yes... I still do think they are coming my way

First 2 settlements towards me - not too close but none the less towards me and possibly a 4th - Well doing that certainly allows him to maximise his road movement towards my general direction.

Based on his settlements stated though, they don't appear too aggressive, and the info was way more than I was expecting. Question is, should I play on this and give limited info back or should I just be as open in hope we can build good relations and have him turn on someone else
He can see corn and horses too - so he has AH and BW!


As for NAP duration, what do lurkers think is a long enough NAP to comfortably cover any Praet rush? T100? longer? I doubt it will be accepted, but certainly worth a punt at asking. You don't ask you don't get right?

As regards to alliance objectives - well....er.....ummmmm I just don't want you attacking moi :neenernee - but need to come up with something more subtle than that.

Oh, and on another note, Catwalk got Budhism and converted this turn.
That seems a little early in my opinion.

[Pegasus]

Well I can see you lurkers are clearly missing my daily updates :neenernee

Is anyone actually interested in this thread


We are now up to [SIZE="3"]turn 37[/SIZE]

Over these last 6 or so turns we managed to chop and whip a Granary, Settler and another Worker out of No Name City and formed Lahood 1 West of the corn to the south of No Name City.

A granary was completed in Big Whiskey also, and is a few turns away from completing a barracks.

I thought I had more map pictures, but the last one I took was on turn 31.



And those of you following the demogs

Diplo wise it is heating up a little. I have finally met the Ottobots last turn

Here is what I received from them:

Greetings Ottomans of Ottomen,

We have finally met in game, ironically we could have met a lot sooner but I detoured off my direct path to you and have ended up crossing the globe before stumbling across you! How is life faring?
Have you met everyone else in game? I met Ad first followed by Cull then Catwalk. If you need pointing in the right direction give us a shout and I shall be more than happy to arrange a meeting point for you, although probably this late on you may have already met and I am last to the party.

My warrior is on your borders, but rest assured he is of the peaceful nature just wandering and discovering new lands of which they are plentiful in resources and pose a familiar outlook.



Best Regards,


Peg





FPegasus,

Fantastic! I now know that my starting warrior came within 2 moves of spotting your borders on turn 12! It is funny that we passed in the wilderness not once but twice.

I have been watching you though. You have been making impressive use of the whip, and appear very well positioned goin forward. Here in the 'greens' game I suppose you are the most experienced, so that's not surprising.

I am pleased to hear that your warrior is friendly, the Ottobots extend a olive branch and a meal of fine fish to your emissary. We can also offer gold trinkets for him to bring home to his wife and kids.

It is unfortunate that we are quite behind in building ties between us. You and I are the last unmet pair, and our meeting means all civs can finally gather at the (suspiciously named) catnip cottage. I would like to catch up with you, find out your take on the game so far and perhaps make plans to work together in the future.

We offer an NAP until turn 50 to allow our messengers safe passage.

I do have gold to offer at some point, what luxury did the Seven Spirits bless you with?

-ceiliazul




Followed swiftly with:

Pegasus,

In the interest of openness and not freaking you out:

The war with Cull has been planned for over 5 turns, in conjunction with adhoc and catwalk. (Rest assured, you would have been included if we had met.) This isn't random warmongering, it's a result of Cull's choices:

-No city near copper or AH tech for horse
-He has no fish, no pig, no resources online at all (possible exception of ivory, but no benefit there anyway.
-He can only build warriors for defense
-No slavery even if he had the resources

In other words, Cull is the weakest link. You're welcome to join the party... if you decide to put forces inbound let's coordinate. :-)

-ceiliazul




My response back:

Ceilazul,

I shall respond to both your emails within this one.

First off, I fully understand your arguments for going for the throat, if what you say is true then goodwill hunting! I too would have taken such an opportunity had it arisen to me. Are you planning on razing the cities or capturing?
I’m just grateful it was not aimed at me although I may have units that could put up more of a fight. My wandering warrior may double back and come watch the fireworks with a bucket of popcorn .

With regards to a NAP, I could play silly sod here and say I am not interested. This will no doubt cause concern for you and possibly hinder your military momentarily to cover anything I may have whilst on your quest for Cull.
However, I am not that type of neighbour. I would gladly take a NAP with you in hope that you see this as a goodwill gesture on my behalf to allow you to go full steam with your plans and that in the future we can build strong relationships to go on similar quests together as opposed to against each other as I imagine over the course of the game there will be many a conversation between all of us turning on each other. I personally would be interested in a longer NAP up to say turn 80. How does that sound?

It is funny how most of you perceive me to be the most experienced, but for me Ad hoc is the dark horse in this game. Working with him in PB4 he certainly knows his stuff!

I admit my thirst to use the whip has been a little erratic but what do my citizens expect when they start whinging at me .

You have Gold! GOLD!!! Is this in your BFC? I have been blessed with gems but not in my BFC.

I have Writing in next turn, would you be interested in an Open Border agreement?


Peg

If Ceilazul is right about Cull, he's going to be in a world of pain very shortly.
Either way, I don't want to get too involved early doors warring. Based on other PBEM's early warring helps nobody.


Adhoc has been rather quiet - I sent him this tonight:

Ad,

How are things going your end?

I have finally met Ceilazul last turn. He tells me you, the Romans and Ottobots are on a mission to take out Cull. Based on his stated knowledge Cull is in for a tough time!

How is diplo going with the others. Catwalk is playing very coy, he tells me he has NAPS with you all so is limited in his options. Can you reveal what NAP you have with him or is it a forbidden agreement between you?
I have been approached for a short NAP but I am pressing for something much longer post Praet era. Needless to say he’s not very forthcoming .



Peg

We agreed early doors to keep each otherinformed about each other, and he has come back with Nada so far, not that he has anything to report as yet do I, but I feel the need to keep him on his toes and keep friendly relations alive. I may need a friend against Rome which I move onto...



Catwalk and I are not seeing eye to eye at the moment - but then again i'm not playing the friendliest of neighbours trying to force the negotiations on the table, whilst he wants to keep his options open

Hello Catwalk,

Apologies in the delay getting back to you. I will not tend to allow diplo to take this long in the future, unfortunately real life kicked in resulting in some unforseen quite late evenings at work this week.
Haphazard is right imo regarding peace. Looking back at some of the other threads, early warring doesn’t benefit anyone longer term. Although with Rome as everyone’s neighbours, I imagine you have quite a few friendly emails all wanting to be friends .
How about a minimum rolling NAP to turn 120 with a cooling off period of 10 turns? That means if either of us wanted to cancel it we would have to give notice on turn 110. Any delay results in the NAP automatically extending beyond Turn 120 until the 10 turn cool down expires?
We both agree not to aggressively settle our dead mans lands between us, and we can come to some sort of settlement agreement regarding that?
With regards to an alliance, I was merely a) covering my back, the way I see it there is a 20% chance you may come for me, 20% chance for each of the other competitors, and 20% chance you want to build peacefully, but then I may question why you went for Rome and b) I was offering you a backbone to allow you to focus on one of the others.

Let me know your thoughts?



Peg




followed by


Hi Catwalk,

I haven’t heard from you in a while, should I be worried

I have finally met everyone in game – always last to the party! The Ottobots are at war, and they tell me yourself and Ad are also in for the spoils. As yet I cannot see either of you at war with Cull so not sure how true Ceilazuls statement is, but if you are intending then good luck in your endeavours.

Have you any thoughts on my below proposal?

Regards,


Peg





His response:

Greetings Pegasus.

You have no need to be worried, I've just been less active recently. In particular, school has been stressing me out. We have indeed been discussing war with Cull. I'm dragging my feet a little, as I have a NAP until t47 with Cull and really don't have any military to speak of. I'm also concerned that I seem to be falling a bit behind the rest of you, my research is painfully slow currently.

As for your proposal, I'm inclined to accept. I'm concerned that I'll severely limit my options in so doing, though. I have good relations and NAPs with Ceil and Ad Hoc, and it seems that Cull will be going down as his lack of diplomacy has left him exposed. If I NAP you as well, I'll have no targets available to me for a long time. Praetorians seem to be my ace in the hole in this game, and I'm worried I'll waste them if all 3 of you are NAPed for a long time. Furthermore, I have no idea how the game is going to play out. Right now the city upkeep costs seem crippling to me, so it seems like there's plenty land for all of us for the foreseeable future.

Sorry for not being able to give you a more definite answer than that right now, it really is mostly due to lack of overview and my recent lack of focus on the game. Long NAPs are a deciding factor, so I'm trying to take care not to screw up. Would you be interested in adding a dotmap agreement to the treaty? Also, would you be willing to inform me some more about your dealings with the other players?

I hope you will read this message in the spirit it was intended: Sincere but thoroughly confused and a little bit stressed
Best regards,
Catwalk



I thought I would summarise it up to him

Hi Catwalk,

So in summary:

• You have NAPs with everyone else bar me
  
• Cull’s NAP is to T47 but others much longer and good relations – if what the Ottobots state is true then Cull may not be around too long anyhow
  
• Your proposed cities are towards me
  
• You want to keep your options open in order to choose who to attack (fully understandable)
  
• Peg get your coat – batten down the hatches, full steam ahead on military techs then
  
  

Straight up, you pose me the biggest concern with your early strength UU, and no doubt we all know one of us in for it at some point. But based on those facts above, I must be in prime position or you have to do the dirty on one of them.

I currently have a NAP with Ad, and one in negotiation with Ceilazul. Don’t get me wrong, I want to get along with you, but one thing I am aware of is the proposition of a dog pile on top of a Praet attack. Getting the right NAP as you have rightly pointed out is crucial to stop any of this nonsense. If I can’t achieve this then NAP’s are virtually worthless after the first initial scouting period.

One saving grace is possibly the Emperor level setting. Monarch level is bad enough but as you have rightly stated maintenance is a bitch. If you don’t sort your finances/teching balance out, you could find that your window of opportunity to capitalise on your UU will be slim, especially the costs to send them out conquering.

It looks like we may never get an agreement on a NAP which is no bad thing for both of us, and I can live in my paranoia bubble, it will focus me on my defences anyhow from any of you possibly targeting me, and it gives you another option. We shouldn’t let this come between us.
We somehow need to build up some trust between us. A dotmap agreement might be a way forward. What do you have in mind?

Peg

I hadn't actually considered how much Emporer level costs would surmount to when I wanted Rome, so maybe this could be a saving grace for me in my initial selections. I still fear for safety, but I do wonder how he will sort out his finances.

Incidentally lurkers, in SP game I tend to keep rome happy unitl post Praet rather than try and deal with them early doors. Am I right in thinking Axes with Melee bonus will be sufficient in dealing with a Praet rush? Will Longbows be adequate defence against them or should I focus more on
Cats and Horse Archers??

Usually I would focus on Knights and go from there, but I don't forsee myself having that luxury.

[Pegasus]

Well my viewings are going up so someone is reading these posts

Just need to work out how to get you lurkers to interact :neenernee

Well we have had about 6 turns played since the last update.

In terms of development - I chopped a library this very turn for No Name City. I have happiness problems in there at the moment - so some scientists are going to come in handy to trim the surplus food. I could do with whipping some more settlers, but the maintenance is going to cripple me, so I need to get some scientists up and running in the other cities ASAP top take care of the research.

Lahood is working on a Granary first, then I will aim to get a library in also.

Big Whiskey is a couple of turns away from a library. I thought about whipping but next turn it comes out of whip anger anyhow and I have two cottage flood plains for it to be working on.

One of my workers is currently roading the copper whilst 3 others just chopped me a library fo No Name City. My 5th just completed the flood plain cottage at Big Whiskey. That worker will go mine the gems next turn. The rest will mine the copper.

Research wise Writing completed and Maths has been lined up. I'm on Max tax at the moment. On hitting end turn and my library coming online 1 scientist reduced that to 16turns at 100% gold. I'm looking forward to seeing what 2 scientists will do next turn

Diplo wise, it has been quite interactive.

Reponse from Ad

Hi Peg,

With the game feeling a bit disjointed at the moment due to missed turns (Culls done it again!) i guess diplo's hit and miss.

Basically Ceil and I are just a bit annoyed with Cull for missing too many turns and with his position being quite weak have taken the opportunity for a bit of mischief, i don't think we can knock Cull out but we can really hinder his development. I'm on the way to his lands with just a couple of Warriors ( good invasion force hey!) but haven't declared yet while i think Ceil is there already with a chariot.

I'm at T100 with Catwalk, T80 with Ceil and T70 with yourself, i think if you get a dialogue going with Catwalk he'll come round to a NAP which takes you past Praets.

i'll keep you informed on the war

Ad Hoc

Diplo with Ceil

Peg,

I wouldn't have dreamed of warring with you, because I know full well you can build real units. And because you're a nice guy... that too. ;-)

I think everyone got a lux on the same tile across the lake. My gold is on desert hill, Cat has silver on plains hill, Cull has ivory, I suppose AdHoc has fur. Is your diamond on grassland hill? Seems like reasonable balance to adjust the tils that way.

My city of Biohazard is 1n of my horse, and I have access to the gold in that city. I might have preferred diamonds, honestly, because working the gold is badly stunting my growth there.

Regarding the NAP, your first sentence sure got my attention! I agree that our peace will help me focus on Cull. I like working with you, what if we took that NAP all the way out to t120? That would allow us each to get solid growth, and see how the game is shaping up.

I agree with Ad Hoc's strong showing so far, he's the one in particular that I want to keep options open with. He's playing "big brother" in close ties with Catwalk, and who wouldn't like Rome as a little brother! I can tell you that he's also very attentive to the demos, and watching yours and my moves carefully. In chatting with me, he commented on my demos, and told me everything about my empire but my left shoe size.

-ceil

P.S. Because there has been some controversy here at RB, it seems prudent to say: an NAP means no declaring war, no gifting units to others for proxy war, and no accepting gifts which would otherwise be trophies of conquest for the other.



My reply

Hi Ceil,

I don't know why but I thought I had responded, but checking my mail I clearly didn’t (although I did have a little heart flummux and thought I had sent it to one of the others by mistake!)

Don’t worry about my warrior, he’s heading back over towards Cull, via a popcorn vendor .

I would be happy to sign a NAP to turn 120. And all of which you covered within the PS sounds fair and I agree to. Can we agree to stop EP on each other once we have graphs also?

How are you getting on with all the others? Do you have your borders secured with them also?

With regards to my gems – they are on a plains hill, but I spot Gold over to my West.

Ad knows his stuff, and what you stated doesn’t surprise me in the least. I heard from him the other day. I do believe he will be providing some units to the “Kill Cull show” also.



regards,


Peg


And his response


Peg,

Happy to hear from you, and no sweat on the delay. As we work together, can we agree not to share info from our emails with others?

As far as other diplo, I'm feeling pretty good so far.
- Cull doesn't like me, but he knows others are attacking too. He'll be around for a while, unless he totally gives up, but he's likely out of the running. He just got AH, but no workers are anywhere near the horses. Ad Hoc will have a warrior near copper in 2 turns. If I was Cull, archery would be next.
- Ad Hoc and I are getting along well, in fact he'll claim a purple worker that I chased his direction next turn. He and I have been bouncing demo questions off each other, but I think he's just toying with me on that front.
- Catwalk was initially very helpful (did he offer you his world map?) but now seems a bit unfocused. He's getting a lot of veteran input, and possibly getting pulled in divergent directions? I fear he's totally in Ad Hoc's pocket, so if he wants to exercise his Praetorians, it'll likely be against you or me.

I'm happy to stop EPs at 43... is that the right place to ensure we can both get graphs?

Plains hill gems! Mine 'em pronto. I estimate my one lux tile is contributing about 40% of my total empire's research capability. Settling 'Hazard' was a huge drag for my research, total maintenance jumped by 8gpt! I should probably have delayed it for a while, but I wanted a city to fight against Catwalk's holy culture, which is in a forward city toward me. It threatened to let Catwalk put a city adjacent to my capital any time he wanted.

Regarding the map, here's some info:

No incense spotted yet, and no marble or stone. (Bummer for my industrious self...)

Each person got one ancient lux and one calendar lux:
Ceil = gold and silk
Catwalk = silver and wine
Cull = ivory and dye
Ad Hoc = fur and sugar
You have gems and spice, by process of elimination

Each person's lux are duplicated near the point furthest from their capital. I suspect you saw gold to the west-southwest of your copper, because that's furthest from me on the toroid. It's a pretty cool setup, even if it's going to take us 200 turns to settle the map with this crazy maintenance!

Lots on info offered here because I desire openness with you. If we can agree to confidentiality with each other, I hope for more to come.

Sincerely,

Ceiliazul



followed by...


Hi Ceil,

I’m happy with not sharing our diplo with others without our consent.

Catwalk’s diplo with me has alluded me to a few things . Mainly he has NAP’s with everyone bar me and that he wants to keep his options open with regards to a Preat attack. If Cull disappears, I guess that means me then . Cat knows how I feel as my last diplo summarised it up for him. Hence the reason I was curious to your length as I know Ad is pretty much tied down to post Preat’s. He did offer me a map in Excel, but I respectfully declined as I had an indication of how the world revolves prior to meeting. I put something up in my thread pre game starting as to where I thought we would all be. I had it in slight reverse, so expected you NW as opposed to NE, but the gist of it was fairly accurate.

Diplo between Cull and myself has been “Hello”.

Diplo between Ad and myself has been fairly good. Not so inquisitive as perhaps your experiences, but at present we have a NAP to T50 but it rolls over each turn with cool down options. Based on his last few PBEM games he has been involved in early warring which has been to the detriment of his game. I can’t imagine he would want another similar starting game. This issue with Cull is just a playful thing imo with a token gesture it looks like. Cull could be in some serious trouble later on being so far behind and after an Ottobot invasion that he could be easy pickings for Catwalk. But as you have rightly alluded to already, maintenance on emperor is a killer. Cat has noticed this already, so early warring could be expensive, and I am hoping my saving grace to deterring him attacking anyone!

Happiness is my issue at the moment, so connecting those gems is a double bubble of goodness for me. I think I may take your advice and get them hooked up ASAP.
I did notice there was no Stone or Marble. That’s a real bummer with regards to being IND!
With regards to me having spices, you are correct, 2x down to my SE.

A free worker to Ad! Hmmm, I hope he’s compensating you for the trouble.

I would much appreciate it if you could inform me if you hear anything about Cat’s plans of attack, and should he come knocking on my door I will gladly send the messengers out and keep you informed.



Thanks


Peg


And then the beedy eyed Ceil responds yet again

Peg,

Congrats on the triple city growth, that's quite a score jump!

I have NAP with Ad Hoc until t80 and Catwalk until t100.

Sorry to hear you're butting heads with Catwalk. At least he's not aggressive, so he won't have shock promo available. If needed, your axes would get good enough odds to break even on a build-cost basis, and home field advantage would turn the tide. I'll let you know if I see signs of war in his demos.

I agree that Ad Hoc is not sold out on attacking Cull. For that matter, neither am I... my chariot in his lands is probably going solo for a long time. Ad Hoc has 2 warriors inbound, Catwalk may add another 2. With his hilltop cities, we won't be killing him without catapults. I have a bad feeling Catwalk will get the kill with Praets. Sacking the capital is worth 80-180 gold, Baylife will be worth ~40 by then. That would pay Catwalk's way all the way through currency. Don't suggest it, for sure.

-ceil


to which I have just responded with



Hmmm, not only Ad monitoring the old points and Demogs then . Can you guess what I did with them though?

I think I have managed to secure a T100 NAP with Catwalk barring dot map settlement agreement which can only be good for now. Interestingly that tallies up with your NAP with him also.
That could lead to a possible opportunity of a Joint Venture between us around that time as we are in similar circumstances to renew NAPS with him. Not that I am suggesting such a thing as yet – but merely pointing out a possible opportunity.

What does Cull have in his cities at the moment? Have you any plunder gold available in destroying improvements?



Peg

My diplo with Catwalk is improving

Hey Pegasus.


School work is easing up ever so slightly, and I can make a half-hearted at some diplomacy once more. I will not be entering the war with Cull, and I am interested in a long NAP with you. I suggested terms that allow for the NAP to be broken with a 10t cooldown period. My sole intention with this is to be able to take action against you in case you're about to run away with the game. If you prefer different arrangement, I'm very open for that. I'd prefer a dotmap agreement to go along with the NAP, if you're up for that.


Best regards,
Catwalk




Hey Catwalk,

This is pleasing to read

When you say long NAP though are you just stating you want a rolling 10 turn NAP which you can give notice on in 10 turns time say (which doesn’t classify in my opinion “a long NAP”) or we do actually have a long NAP with 10 turn cool down period like say to T100 and rolling then on?
If it is the former you require, we may as well stay as is because I don’t see it beneficial to either of us.

There is a good chance Cull may still be around (albeit battered and bruised) by the time Ad and Ceil have finished, which indicates they could be easy prey for your Praets, but I do suffer from this Praet paranoia coming at me .

I would be happy to have a dotmap agreement in place prior to any NAP occurring.



BR,


Peg




Apologies in advance for coming across as a possibly misinformed newbie (as usual). Yes, I did mean a NAP that can be cancelled with 10t notice. I thought 10t would be sufficient to calm any fears you might have. How about a NAP until t100 with 10t cooldown after that? Along with a dotmap agreement, provided that we can agree on a reasonable partition.




Hi Catwalk,

Minimum T100 NAP with 10T cool down after that sounds great. Shall we just go along with the NAP rolling each turn until we give notice there after?
With regards to a dot map, do you have one in mind already? I have to admit I have not thought too much about settling your way early doors – didn’t want to place a possible target at your doorstep so soon . I really should attempt a mapstitch of the land now we know how it lies!
No doubt your scouted lands are more precise than mine, and I am assuming what I scouted up towards Cull as being similar to what you are seeing it looks like we will meet up in the vicinity of banana resource. Anything right of those vertical tiles is yours, everything left is mine, and we just need to understand how we share the one vertical line of tiles. Hopefully we can find a nice fit and start building better relations and trust in each other. Does this sound about right for you?



Peg

PS I will assume no NAP in place until we agree on border settlements.

So what have I learnt from all of this diplo

Ceil thinks Ad and Catwalk are fairly water tight.
No one likes Cull in this game
Catwalk has aligned Ceil, Ad and possibly me to a T100 NAP. Possible 3 on 1 opportunity there whilst he possibly goes for Cull
Ceil is monitoring the points and demogs - only wish I started early doors to do the same I might need to load up the saves and look at the demogs and points to build a better picture

[Pegasus]

We are now up to T45.

Oracle was landed this turn.



I'm assuming by Ceil because he told me he would land it this turn :neenernee We discussed what he might take. He mentioned MC as the most expensive but I actually think CoL would be better for him to get a happy from religion, which he can start to spread with his free missionary. He can start on courthouses plus if he gets a GP from his Oracle he can get his shrine for extra chaching!

Here is a map as of turn 44



Demogs as of this turn




Diplo wise

Catwalk offered me a map again which I accepted (but am still waiting for it - he was busy yesterday) but we are going to use it to determine a border agreement.

Ceil is harrassing me over my inability to provide diplo a day services. He means well, but damn this diplo and updating is hard. Basically he was concerned he may have to whip out another settler to beat me to a spot closest to his lands. With maintenance so high - theres no chance I am going all the way up there when I have slots much closer to home to fill.


City wise.

Libraries are in Big Whiskey and No Name City. big whiskey currently starving whiilst working 2 flood plain cottages and running 2 scientists. 3 workers chopped into a settler ready to whip in No Name City next turn for 3 pop.
Lahood whipped out a granary, growing in 3 or 4 cant remember I have a worker down there putting a camp on the West Deer.

Next turn I plan to complete a road to the gems. 2 workers will put 2 turns into a mine also.