Patch 1.52 is out!!!

[Jester]

That creates a wall, though.

A builder's game is great, as far as it goes. But in order to play a successful "builder" game on monarch or higher, you usually need to "assimilate" at least one other empire, or else you simply get destroyed by the AIs.

So, the lower difficulties, where you can be a defender, just got easier. The higher ones, where strategic necessity will force you to attack occasionally, just got harder.

Or, at least, that's my intuition. My only game on this patch was a space race loss to a runaway Gandhi (how the heck does that little man *DO* that?)

-Jester

[notque]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but the change in attack has really setup this scheme in my mind. Tried it multiple times now.

I let them come into my territory, they go after resources, I attack and kill them in open ground.

I let them come into my territory, they attack a city they die.

I let them come into my territory, the second they step into an open area I kill them.

... Okay, but to counter.

I walk around only in cover in their territory. They attack me, they die.. They let me roam free, I pillage, crippling them.

Note: I suck at military games. I have never been able to put forth a good attack strategy without other civs attacking with me, ganging up on someone.

Now I'm a monster of military might. The logic of my moves over their standard system of attack is so overwhelming.

I can pick off guys quite easily now.

Maybe it will change. Haven't gotten to continue a game today, I'm ready to strike the second I get samari.

[Morred]

I've found it quite similiar, however I declared war, and was on the attack (This was only on Noble). But the odds were amazing. I had 3 Cats, 3 axemen, a spearman and 5 swordsmen all at one city. I had bombarded the defenses to 0 and they had 2 archers in there. My swordsmen with City Raider 1 Promotion. Had a 5% chance of winning. I basically killed my entire pile on that one city, and I had to sign a Peace Treaty as they had a SoD coming my way.

My conclusion: To take cities you need a large technological advantage now.

[MeteorPunch]

I've found it quite similiar, however I declared war, and was on the attack (This was only on Noble). But the odds were amazing. I had 3 Cats, 3 axemen, a spearman and 5 swordsmen all at one city. I had bombarded the defenses to 0 and they had 2 archers in there. My swordsmen with City Raider 1 Promotion. Had a 5% chance of winning. I basically killed my entire pile on that one city, and I had to sign a Peace Treaty as they had a SoD coming my way.

My conclusion: To take cities you need a large technological advantage now.

If it's that bad I'm quitting Civ 4. Did you suicide the catapults? Any promotions? Losing 12 units to 2 archers is insane.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

since I've upgraded to 1.52, I cannot activate the flying camera mode anymore. The .ini still has the correct entry - have they removed the mode, or am I doing something wrong?

-Kylearan

[Morred]

If it's that bad I'm quitting Civ 4. Did you suicide the catapults? Any promotions? Losing 12 units to 2 archers is insane.

All the Swordsmen had City Raider 1, Axemen Combat 1 and the Pults had Barrage 1. I suicided two of the Pults, and I didn't quite lose 12 units. I still had a Spear, 2 Swords and a Pult left. So I lost 8 units to 2 archers.

[Renata]

Re: the combat calc change:

Time will tell, but my gut feeling is that this isn't a good change.

Me, too. I loved the way the original system worked, and I'm baffled as to why this even came up as a good idea. Appeasing the dingalings who can't be bothered to spend 30 seconds figuring out why attacking a full-strength knight with their 2.5 strength gunship isn't a strong move doesn't strike me as the way to make a good strategy game.

*inserts usual disclaimer about not trying to pass judgment on something she hasn't tried yet, and all of that, but is worried*

[MeteorPunch]

I loved the way the original system worked, and I'm baffled as to why this even came up as a good idea. Appeasing the dingalings who can't be bothered to spend 30 seconds figuring out why attacking a full-strength knight with their 2.5 strength gunship isn't a strong move doesn't strike me as the way to make a good strategy game.

Renata, I want to use this as my sig on CFC...do you want to be credited or not?

After spending some time with combat and the patch I'm 100% sure that the combat in 1.09 made it a better game.

Reason for the change? I dunno. Did Firaxis find a new way to beat Deity so that they needed to increase the difficulty to compensate? Is this really a case of going against logic and listening to noobs? The only people asking for this change were the 20 or so posts at CFC claiming the battle system was unrealistic. Each of these posters was quickly shot down by people explaining that Civ is a game and is not intended for realism, but balance. How come this was implemented and not the 100 or so better ideas? :mad:

Frustrating.

[Drasca]

...claiming the battle system was unrealistic. Each of these posters was quickly shot down by people explaining that Civ is a game and is not intended for realism, but balance.
Frustrating.

The irony is, no one listened to the realism of noting how a real unit is considered destroyed when taking losses below 40%. If health is considered use-able manpower, of say, 100 men (easier to think of this way), and 40 are killed, the 60 left can't just pickup two swords/guns/cars each and do the same damage as before.

The power of Aircraft bombardment was balanced by quite a few things: 50% collateral limit, greatly better healing rate for units in your own territory, inability to bomb roads/rails away, and fighter/intercepters.

The other irony is the AI bases its attacks off the previous battle system, so it is more likely to lose on attacking a defensive stack given equivalent units.

I don't particularly like the combat changes, and I've listed some problems here, but I'm still not entirely sure how balanced or unbalanced it is. I don't have to like it though. Taking down a financial city in Diety will take an epic effort. Casualties are estimated at 3:1 right now. If I were fighting a human with a tech advantage, the losses would probably be insurmountable, and I'd likely concede victory.

[Arathorn]

Tech uber alles. Tech uber alles. That seems to be Firaxis's mantra. A tech lead and superior units are insane. Instead of hps being an approximate fourth-power order of diminishing of a unit (dmg to kill, damage done, damage taken, chance to hit), it's now second power (pending some final tests). That's a HUGE change.

Waves of units were somewhat effective before. They've just become significantly less so. Once again, a tech lead is insurmountable (OK, not really, but...). When in doubt, tech. Tech uber alles.

Arathorn