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Civ 5 We Hardly Knew Ye [Spoilers]
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 Moved the warrior as Rowain suggested and he found out we have coast to the north. So, I decided to settle on the hill for the free production, giving us this Capital. We'll likely have to buy some hills for production, since the borders will take so long to expand there. We already see quite a bit of decent expands, with new luxuries, which fits the Liberty game plan.  Production focus, the mark of a pro civ 5 player.   Hut gave us culture, which is very, very nice. The earlier the better for Culture, since both the tradition and the liberty openers give extra culture, snowballing a bit. I'll go with liberty and the extra culture will help get the food tiles online sooner. It seems we'll be pretty quick to collective rule, since we got the culture ruin and we'll focus heavily on hammers on this start, getting a fast monument too. That fits nicely with the heavy hammer Capital (I'm hoping we can reach size 3 before building settlers). I really want to go for religion, but this terrain doesn't give the best faith generating pantheon options... Perhaps God-King is the best one? It's a small bonus, but at least we get it straight away. I want a pantheon that gives faith... Stone circles is just 2 faith with what we can see now, and it requires a quarry, we don't get it straight away... It's though. We can't really beat Ethiopia to the first religion, so we need to gun for the second one. But if someone has wine/incense in place of the cotton resources, they can get a significant faith advantage from the Festivals Pantheon. Of course, that requires actually working those tiles, which are not great early, but I wouldn't doubt that my opponents could go for it... And the third religion starts becoming way worse. Perhaps we go for a Stonehenge play? One of Liberty's early advantages is having spare hammers for wonders/buildings, since you get settlers/workers for free. With an early Stonehenge, perhaps we can even beat Ethiopia to the first religion? It's worth thinking about it. Just rambling a bit...
Stonehenge isn't great. 185h for 5 faith is just about the same as building 5 ordinary shrines.
Yeah I don't really know how to generate lots of faith without Desert Folklore. Faith pantheons exist for a bunch of resource types, but not any of yours besides the single stone, and I'd take God-King over that. One method if you're in Liberty is to skip faith entirely and use the finisher for your prophet. Why does the third religion start becoming way worse? There's a number of beliefs of about equal strength. There's several founder options for money or happy, and several follower beliefs for food or production or the faith buildings. You'll get something workable as long as you're not totally last.
Thanks for the comments, T-Hawk. I really liked the idea of generating the Prophet through the Liberty finisher. The finisher gives a bad taste due to counting for the naturally generated GPs, so using it for a Prophet gives the extra benefit of not messing up with the 100 GPP Great Person. I need to check the timings (I'm really not sure about when to expect the Liberty tree to be finished), but I quite like the idea. I'd still want a bit of faith generation, because I want Pagodas/religious buildings as one of the Beliefs, but I quite like the idea.
Do you know if you lose your stored faith when getting a Great Prophet from the Liberty finisher, T-Hawk? I also think that I exhaggerated when saying the third religion is much worse. I wanted one of the gold Founder beliefs, and Tithe and Church Proprierty just seemed like the best ones (not sure how initiation rites compare to these 2, but it didn't seem very good). But Cerimonial Burial also seems like a good belief. Considering I'm planning to go with a high number of low pop cities, it seems to me that Church Proprierty would end up being better. But, in practice, I think Tithe would have the advantage... As for Follower Beliefs, going for a liberty strategy (which makes Religious Community % production bonus less appealing), I have difficulty finding options besides the Faith Building ones. Perhaps, Religious Center, that gives +2 happy for Temples in cities with 5 followers. If I go for some spare Policies in Piety, like getting the opener, temples would become 2 happies for 50 hammers (though we need to wait for the 5 followers), which is decent. If that's the case, we need somewhere to fuel our extra faith from the temples, so a Reformation belief would likely be needed, for the GPs or Science buildings. Something to consider... I now think even the third religion can be pretty good, and that after that, things become a bit more difficult (especially if Ethiopia already enhanced its religion, for example). We'll see, but I'm quite happy with T-Hawk's idea of generating the Prophet through the Liberty finisher.
Liberty finishes around turn 90 ± 10 in my experience (normal speed.)
I don't think a Liberty prophet makes you lose your stored faith, but not quite 100% sure. I am pretty sure the Hagia Sophia prophet doesn't cause that at least. The belief to get production in low pop cities is Guruship, although that takes a while (workshops or universities) to kick in. Religious Community is fine anyway, it's not that hard to get cities up to size 10 and 20 base hammers which will make it match Guruship, and bigger cities get more on top of that. I've found Religious Center pretty underwhelming. It takes forever to get around to building the temples, there's so much other stuff that's more important. The Piety opener and Organized Religion help some, but I'm not sure how much, compared to the opportunity cost that could be going into Patronage or Commerce instead. (There's no such thing as a spare policy, every one could be doing something important.) As for a Reformation belief, it takes longer than you think (~turn 150 normal speed) to get four more policies up to that after finishing Liberty. I like Tithe better than Church Property because Tithe operates on cities that haven't converted yet. In single player games I often have a bunch of nearby city-states and AI cities that pick up a few followers by passive pressure, and it's nice to have Tithe working on them.
September 23rd, 2016, 06:03
(This post was last modified: September 23rd, 2016, 06:03 by chumchu.)
Quick rule clarification:
- using the liberty finisher for a prophet does actually increase the counters of both prophets and scientist/merchants/engineers.  - You do not lose your stored faith 
Thanks for the info, guys. It's all very helpful, even when it's unpleasant (what prophets have to do with Scientists and Engineers?!
 ). A coastal city here will likely be settled at some point, to use the water-boosted food/prod TRs back to the Capital. Warrior will likely explore SE now. It's nice to see another river east and we need to see what else is there.  My glancing over C&D leads me to believe we are the only ones that settled on coast. Nic and Yuris settled for the 3f fish (likely 1SE of starting position). Oledavy settled east, likely on top of plains cotton (most likely plains wine for him, considering his thread title). Pindicator and HAK, I guess they've settled in place. Yuris got a free tech, not pop. Davey got a free pop, he must be working calendar resource + bare plains (max food is 5, so he's not working two 2f tiles), which leads me to believe his initial move was pretty poor.  Met my first City State. Maritime is not very good, but it's friendly, at least. I'll likely steal a worker from them, as it's so close. Another option is extorting gold, which appears to be very easy to do with Immortals and Persia. Perhaps we can luck out into an upgrade...  After all this talk about Liberty, I couldn't just go Tradition, right? Perhaps not optimal, but it's what I want to do. Lets spam cities all around and see how far we get.  I made some quick calculations and decided to buy the fish tile, with the CS money. The city would take a while to expand there naturally and the full prod setup wasn't going to bring much benefit. I could finish the monument 1t sooner staying on the 1/2 tile, but it would finish 1 turn before pottery, so I'd just put hammers into something I don't plan to finish for now (as I think i'll go shrine next -> if we'll take God King, let get it fast). We lose 2 culture, but gain more science and food. Next turn we get the second ruin with the scout. Hopefully we can avoid the usual bad results and the upgrade one, because I'd prefer getting a Immortal instead (that's considering ruins take a while to repeat results, so an archer upgrade on the scout likely means no Immortal for us).  Nice! The goal of being at least size 3 when producing settlers will be reached for sure now and I think we can make it to size 4. I've been very lucky with the ruins until now, which is always nice.  More luxuries! I think there might be a strategic resource 1SE of the Cotton near the Capital. That's because this turn, the tile picker in the Capital also shows the cotton tile as being a possible expand, rather than just the sheep. I don't know if the game takes into account hidden resources, but, from what I can think, it's either that, or the game is reacting 1 turn late to I buying the fish tile. |
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Is that character a variant? (I just love getting asked that in channel.) - Charis |
