[pb40 spoiler] Götterdämmerung: Destruction Is The Masses' Entertainment

[Coeurva]

Boudica isn't EXP, so I'd agree we can't pick her.

Shaka has top priority for me right now. superdeath grabbed Zulu with third pick somehow (think I should have vetoed snake because it's still a dumb mode in RtR, you don't first pick Pacal/Willem, you pick Zulu/Inca instead, PB37 was no different; at least we're not second-last in the snake I suppose), and will obviously want to take Shaka on the return trip. Having AGG barracks is as good as non-AGG ikhandas and he'll also not get both of AGG and EXP -- I don't assume MS or s_t will take that.

If shallow_thought picks either of Shaka or Rome, I think Mehmed or Washington of Carthage or Ottomans (sorry) has to be our pick instead. I wouldn't mind Mehmed of Ottomans, or Wash of Carth (CarWash?).

Undecided on granary I think we can only make that call once we've seen more of the map, but I'm kind of enamored with the idea of 2t to grow 14/28, granary 2-whip, 2t regrow, then queue settler, producing warrior first at 2nd city (if it has at least 2hpt). Main advantage is that the granary doesn't require worker attention, not even a chop, during those 4t so that can be a pasture at the 2nd city. But I'd also agree that a settler can repay the investment better -- granary with +5 surplus at size3 is like adding another 5f tile, so not quite as good as adding another 6-yield.

[OT4E]

Wash/Isa/Mehmed of Rome can also work. I am not pressing. I am happy that it is not me who has to make this hard choice.

Granary has less benefit with mines and we will already have 1. Also EXP must focus on having more workers and keeping tiles improved. On size of 4 our cap will be able to make worker in 4 turns without whips or chops. I wish every settler we make will be equippes by 2 workers to road to the location, improve food and chop into granary. This pays off better than plain settlers even if we delay the last ones.

[OT4E]

So China, Zulu, Inca and Persia are gone. So is Pacal. Any questions?

Go go go! Somebody, please stay ready to remove corpses.

[Coeurva]

Please ignore OT4E who seems to have forgotten the collegial open-door policy I promised in the opening post. Praetorians for instance can open a lot of doors. We picked AGG mainly for economic reasons. Conquered cities cost a lot of distance maintenance.

[Rusten]

You're going to bully the newbies away! They'll never want to play again!  


I'm jealous, should be fun to play.

[OT4E]

Relax everyone, Commodore said that there will be no iron on the map.

[OT4E]

My view of the key objectives for the game:
1) Not to get rushed. It is possible that people will not wait for praetorians to emerge. Zulu and Persia are especially dangerous.

2) Settle well-thought cities. We will feel that settlers are expensive and no cheap granary will not let us grow quick. We'd better plant later but with worker support and not pick up the first good location but consider different aspects. I also dont think that we need to hurry to pick up choke points. People will think twice before planting towards us.

3) Grow base production and not rely on whips. Core cities producing 10 hpt and still growing, thats how I see it.

4) Not fall into serious attack before we can support it, but I dont mind visiting some farmer-gambitors or wonder-builders with first few praets. However early Maths is nice too, but I guess we need IW for defensive measures first of all.

5) I think wonders or religion are better somebody brings us them for free. Our common focus is on food > production > commerce > military.

6) Build forums and win.

[Coeurva]

Pretty much agree on all counts except that I'm not sure if you're joking about the forum.

Maps on RB seem to be full of iron to make early IW / Maths a meaningful choice. In PB37 we were working like 10 iron mines at our best (22 cities, after capturing Regna) iirc.

[OT4E]

Of course I was kidding sbout forums, but we have discount on those.

I'd like to try some more kinds of openings for this starting location. Unfortunatelt this week I have limited access to PC, but unlikely the game starts and advances far enough.

First 9 turns are pretty obvious, then I think going for BW is rhe most reasonable choice. The options we have are to make sugar farm or mine and when to stop growth and start building worker/settler.

[Coeurva]

Yeah I'm expecting s_t/Hitru, both from FinHarry's youth academy, to emulate their mentors' IMP Persia from PB38, and agree that due to immortals they pose the greatest threat to our opening if neighbours. Might have to consider Hunting before Wheel in that case. I don't expect them to beeline Animal Husbandry before BW or anything, though -- their plan seems to be getting to key locations first, where AGG allows for fewer units to hold them early and fewer gold to pay for the resulting extra cities later. Have to respect the possibility, though.

Magic Science/Mr. Cairo have PRO Inca -- but no midgame trait, which might prove their weakness. We shall see. Terraces imo aren't as great when nearly everyone else has discounted barracks (granaries and barracks get built in every city, so it's just 5h saved; then again, not having to pick between culture building or granary first still yields an earlier advantage in food surplus). Can lock down the Oracle from T0 if desired, which I find most concerning about the snake pick's result.

3/5 opponents picked one of EXP or AGG, 2/5 picked PRO, 1/5 picked one of CHM, IMP, FIN. Think praetorians make for an anti-PRO pick; we've landed a pretty good pick in that with EXP and AGG being so popular, almost nobody has a margin over us -- besides starting techs. superdeath's CHM monopoly stands out there. I'm expecting him to tall-scout with impis and try to raze a city early, but otherwise not play aggressively early on.

Tried simming sugar and size4 (again). Not too impressive. Two food resources are fine for growth already, exp workers prefer the mine, settlers don't care. If we're going to share wheat with city #2, simming sugar becomes more interesting again; agree that we have the first 9 turns basically on autopilot apart from scouting. Should go west first imo.