I'm pretty sure DS moving the capital is a mistake. He's trading his 2nd food resource for a gold, if he works the gold then he has a mere 3 food surplus in his capital. If he doesn't work the gold ... why did he move again? He does get a better long term capital but that's not enough to outweigh the early snowball IMO.
On the other hand I actually missed the potential Commodore move. That would have been worth it IMO. Lucky me .
(September 27th, 2019, 15:28)The Black Sword Wrote: I'm pretty sure DS moving the capital is a mistake. He's trading his 2nd food resource for a gold, if he works the gold then he has a mere 3 food surplus in his capital. If he doesn't work the gold ... why did he move again? He does get a better long term capital but that's not enough to outweigh the early snowball IMO.
DS settled on the grassland 1N of his starting spot, right? If so, then the capital will still produce +9f/turn at size 4. City center (+2) + 2×coastal fish (+6) + grass hill pig (+3) + plains hill gold (-2) = 2+6+3-2 = 9.
Assuming no ocean resource, moving actually picks up an additional food resource. Sucks to lose a turn plus the plains hill start, but I think (not 100% sure because I'm not running 30sims for this) that settling in place was wrong.
Even if he peels off the pigs to city 2, that's still a not-terrible +6fpt at size 3
To be clear, I don't think this is correct in the absence of the gold, as he is really slowing down getting out that second city that could said extra food resource, but he should be able to keep expanding past when most slow down - he'll suffer much less than most on the way to all of the key classical techs.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Quote:DS settled on the grassland 1N of his starting spot, right?
Hmm, that would make more sense. I was assuming he moved to one of the plains hills. My initial gut instinct is still to be skeptical - in general I prefer a plains hill to a 3rd resource that can be picked up by a 2nd city - but I need to think about it a bit more.
Part of the calculus is that if DS settles in place, there is no visible site that grabs the gold and a food before popping borders or until the capital grabs third-ring tiles.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I'm not sure he's right and I think I would have simmed it were I him. He's lost
1) a turn of research
2) A turn of production
3) 1 hammer per turn of production in the short term.
4) a forest
5) a grass riverside cottage.
for
Getting the gold happiness and commerce some, i dunno, 20-30 turns earlier than he would elsewise, plus whatever bonuses he gets from the cap to commerce/research, which might be considerable.
I dunno - if it was grass gems, i'd say it was a good move. Gold - maybe.
The new capital is unquestionably better longterm, but a T34 settler is just way too late when you basically know everyone else is looking at a plains hill start. If he skips the second worker he's talking about prior to the settler he might be in better shape.
Oh, definitely. It's not a slam dunk for sure. I might have half an hour tonight to check out some rough first 30 turns SIP versus 1N, because I am very curious how it actually looks.
It definitely would have been a bit easier if 1N was not forested, but I don't think that losing the grass riverside cottage matters, though, because moving picks up an additional riverside grass (2N of the pigs). Now, granted, DS would have controlled that with another city easily, but presumably this pushes his borders slightly further out in that direction and ultimately depends on whether he loses tiles overall from slowing down his expansion.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
He's missed a fish north of that mountain. That's a decent second city, plains hill fish, immediate WB ready from the capital and (though he doesn't know it) copper 2nd ring. Plenty of land past the pig too ...
.
