[PB65 - Cornflakes] Rising from the Ashes

[Tarkeel]

Where did you end up settling? Last pic is from T20.

[Cornflakes]

Where did you end up settling? Last pic is from T20.

C447

[Cornflakes]

Copper popped up inconveniently in the capital’s 4th ring on the southern coast I guess fishing is next and GREEN dot is pushed back to 4th city I contemplated just picking up archery but fishing is cheaper and I’ll have settler for 4th city shortly after.

[Cornflakes]

Here's updated dotmap now that we have pretty much all of our natural territory uncovered except for the southeast coast towards Superdeath:

   

As you can see, Copper popped up in a poor location there one the southern coast. Unless there is a fish 1SW of the crabs then our copper site doesn't have any 1st ring food, and only clams or crabs as additional 2nd ring food other than the shared cows from capital (and I don't recall ever seeing two adjacent sea resources outside of a capital site). The choice then is between settling for crabs 1st ring in order to also pick up horses on the border pop [T49 copper connection], or settling copper first ring and picking up clams with the border pop [T45 copper connection].

MJMD settled 2nd city to his east ... assuming he has a coastal copper to his north then he would have just settled this turn for copper with his 3rd city. Assuming 3 turns to connect with 2 worker he'd be able to whip an impi T42, or axe T43. I'll have 3 warriors available to screen for impi and defend, and I can easily build a 4th and 5th warrior if needed in an emergency so I think I'll be fine with 2nd ring copper. The reason I want to push copper to 2nd ring is to push harder for YELLOW in the west virtually guaranteeing the sugar site. On the other hand, as I'm writing this I wonder if horses are really that critical at this point in the game? Wet corn is enough to make purple a worthwhile city so it's not like I'd be sequestering horses to a worthless filler. Chariots will not be useful vs. Zulu, and I'm not planning to move offensively vs. Pindi or another neighbor in the next 30 turns. Therefore I may be better off taking the copper 1st ring now. Rather eliminate the Impi risk ASAP than get chariots ASAP.

[Cornflakes]

Also of note in the log, Superdeath built Stonehenge at the blazingly early date of T38. 120 hammers is a large hit on the early expansion snowball. That's a difference of 2 workers, or a settler + warrior. Looking closer at his combo Darius (FIN/ORG) of Byzantium I'm really not liking Darius. Sure those economic traits look nice, but FIN doesn't help at all with getting to Cataphracts. Especially with the choice to take Stonehenge early I think Zara Yaqob (CRE/ORG) would be clearly better. PRO would be best for that early commerce boost but his options there were limited to pairing with either SPI or CHA which I think are not any better pairings than Zara.

Here's a look at the culture overlay of the entire map. Note the zig-zag pattern and continuous landmass across the cylindrical wrap.

   

I see two anomalies in the culture borders:
- Bing has 3rd ring borders already even though he is not CRE ... my assumption that he founded Polytheism is confirmed
- Superdeath appears to have popped borders at his 2nd city. Top5 shows Stonehenge at his capital, therefore he must have founded Buddhism in his 2nd city for the border pop. So not only did he go all-in chopping out Stonehenge, but the extra culture from the monument also is useless at his 2nd city

Ok, enough criticizing of the competition. How are we going to use this intelligence? It looks like a territorial vacuum may be developing there in the BING/Superdeath hemisphere with religion prioritized over expansion. This reinforces my instinct to push hard for GREEN and YELLOW which reach slightly across "the line", since my neighbors should be able to reach across "their lines". And copper is essential to safely lock down that position. If MJMD settles PINK dot that would be a disaster. And if that happens because vacation micro chose a worker ahead of the settler for copper then I'll be kicking myself later ... I spent 4 of those "gained" worker turns chopping a forest in order to speed the follow-up settler for copper by 2 turns

[Cornflakes]

All my beautiful micro signs were destroyed in the reload In walking through it again though I tweaked things a little and I think I can squeeze out GREEN a couple turns earlier, at the cost of slowing down YELLOW by a couple turns. Basically shift the deer and a chop from the capital into Decision Makers (the 2nd city). On further reflection I may even delay YELLOW further to get out a 4th worker. There are many competing demands for worker labor between Deer + Wheat + Gold + Stone at GREEN, Sheep + Corn at YELLOW, Copper + Horse at ORANGE, and all the roads needed to connect those cities due to the lack of rivers on this map. Tentative order of expansion:

• Slavery revolt T42 (not delaying to T100 this game )
  
• ORANGE copper 3rd city T43, with copper mined + roaded T49, save enough gold for axe upgrade immediately in an emergency. Otherwise 2-whip an axe T50 for security, overflowing into either worker or settler (or axe if MJMD's power graph warrants).
  
• GREEN cornucopia 4th city T47 with 3 warriors screening, 4th warrior possible turn after founding.
  
• 4th worker T46 out of the capital
  
• Axe out of Decision Makers T50
  
• Either 2 warriors in succession on T47 + 48, or the 5th worker on T51. Or some combination of 1 warrior + somewhat delayed worker. Probably the latter as insurance and the tradeoff cost of settling with 2nd ring copper instead of 1st ring.
  
• Tech path Fishing T42 > [Save 80 gold for emergency upgrade] > Agriculture T53-ish) > Pottery T60-ish. One benefit of the copper city is that it has a few riverside grass tiles to cottage. Add in the tiles at the capital and I can get about 7 cottages online. Purple (city 6) can pick up 3-or-so more cottages which will be enough to get me through the classical prerequisites for bulbing my monk economy targets of Theology + Paper + Divine Right [*Construction may be included in the prerequisite list, depending on the threat level from my neighbors].
  
• After pottery, save gold for a while. Consider a run to Priesthood to 1-turn chop Oracle if it is being sandbagged to T75. I want Priesthood anyway as a monk prerequisite and might as well gain the arrow bonus on Writing and a chance at turning some a few forests into Monarchy.
  
• Don't skimp on military. We're playing the long game here. Claim territory a little aggressively, push borders through Madrasas + religion culture, squeeze the neighbors, and be ready to pile on when someone inevitably rushes. HBR may be included as a classical Prerequisite for either opportunistic attack or deterrence value. Superdeath is a neighbor after all
  

[Cornflakes]

I realized that there was another tool in my toolkit for guarding against Impi: the War/Peace! Your move MJMD, what are your intentions?

   

According to the power graph MJMD has at most 1 warrior for 3 cities. My warrior is visible near his borders for some incentive, but hopefully not in such a threatening enough way as to elicit a wrathful response. MJMD will see the peace offer on T42 meaning peace would be enforced until T52. GREEN has mountains on both diagonals and therefore cannot be 1-turned after borders pop. Therefore I will be able to get an axe whipped EOT50 and moved into GREEN on T52 (after MJMD in turn order) and be safe.

If MJMD doesn't take the peace then I advance the warrior. Based on what I see I can make the decision to settle either adjacent to or even on copper if necessary. My worker micro is such that I would have immediate road connection if I founded on copper so it would be connected T43 with slavery in place. Founding adjacent to copper I could have it connected T46 at earliest or T47 if I chop workboat first.

A risk of War/Peace is that MJMD could steal PINK DOT site and invalidate GREEN. However MJMD just settled city #3 so I doubt he'd have another settler on the map for a few more turns (not IMP). And if he stole the site in that timeframe I couldn't do anything about it anyway without copper.

[Cornflakes]

MJMD accepted the peace treaty. I considered whether to push forward with PINK, rather than being content with GREEN. I could have sent the current settler up to PINK and settled T45, then settled a junk city on copper T47. Ultimately I decided the political ramifications did not come close to justifying the gain of a cows and a couple plains tiles, let alone sacrificing my 4th city on copper for no further resources. I am proceeding with 2nd ring copper site T43 and GREEN T47. I don’t *think* he can beat me to a site that invalidates GREEN. He has to be on 2 workers now with 3 cities with one or both presumably connecting copper. Therefore he shouldn’t have the necessary labor for roads to a site that locks me out. If he does, then this war/peace will have backfired spectacularly. Here's a closer look at the south where I'm settling next turn.

   

Part of the reason I really want this site with copper in the 2nd ring is so that I can get 3 nice riverside cottages. Settling 1SW would block one grassland and put the eastern one out of range. I'll have 2 workers here after copper and it will be the perfect opportunity to get some cottages online to help keep the economy chugging along as I keep founding cities.

Also Charriu ... did you fiddle with the forest growth mechanics? In my sims I was consistently getting 1-2 forest growth in my playthroughs which was surprising in itself and I almost commented earlier ... but now in game I've had 3 forests grow in the first 40 turns!

[Charriu]

No, you are just lucky. Where did they grow?

[Cornflakes]

1NW and 1NE of Holistic Context, and 2W of Decision Makers (a couple turns before I settled it). The abundance of forests at this start may be contributing to the more rapid spread.