RB PBEM #2 Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

[T-hawk]

btw - is anyone still reading this game? I guess there is a lot going on in the Pitboss games but now PBEM1 is done and this one starts to get to more interesting times, the lurkability will increase!

I'm here. Not been entirely following Pitboss 3 as there's just too much to keep track of. But this game is more manageable, and I do have a bit of a vested interest.

[Rowain]

btw - is anyone still reading this game?

YES

[Square Leg]

In which case I will update!

I want to do a quick post clarifying my deals already set up:

Darrell
Writing - Masonry + Mono
Alpha - Maths

We have to do this in two stages for him to research Maths... I wish this wasn't the case...

We still need to meet but hope to do this via WB's that heading around the north of Ruff and Yaz's Island.

Krill
Alpha + Writing = IW + HBR
I give graphs on dreylin while Krill completes the Oracle for a 50% discount on MC trade when he grabs it. This could be upfront - need to iron that out...

We still need to meet - i envisage my WB moving on to Krill in time - he did mention having a warrior near Darrells land which would speed things up.

Yaz
Alpha = Monarchy

Something else minor too... we'll see

Should meet yaz next in 2 or 3 turns.

Dreylin
NO TECH TRADES!
Settling agreement that he gets the spot he wants in the desert and I get 2 free misionaries and lot of + to fair trade!
Nap til T80

Ruff
NO TECH TRADES!
Thats it.

Just met him so we will see how things progress.

He is obviously warring with Yaz at the moment.

So to summarise - Alpha + Writing = IW + HBR + Maths + Monarchy + Masonry + Mono

Chatted briefly to Yaz about meeting and the war:

14:56 me: Hey Yaz - you got a min?
Yaz: yeah, what's up?
14:57 me: I met ruff with a workboat and am currently moving along his northern border - will I find you soon?
14:58 Yaz: I've not gotten to scout over there so can't be certain but you should meet me soon yeah
14:59 me: cool - I'll order the boat to carry on!
How goes the war?
Yaz: pretty boring so far
15:00 me: Any idea why it started yet?
15:01 Yaz: Well I'm pretty sure I know why but it's not like Ruff is going to come out and admit to it :P
He just wanted to snap up land between us and I didn't want to agree to let him settler right on my capital's borders.
me: Have you secured the land ok?
15:02 Yaz: For now my lands behind my capital are secured. Unfortunately the lands between us are the nice ones from what I've seen.
15:03 me: ah - well good luck and hopefully we will meet soon!
Yaz: Yup. You may want to talk to darell. His workboat just found me
15:04 me: In process!
cheers!
Yaz: Alright, cya
15:05 me: cya!

and then to Darrell:

14:57 Darrelljs: Hey...just FYI I found Yaz. He is to my north, and a little bit east.
that makes me think you are closer to krill
14:58 me: I think Krill or you is my polar opposite... I have met ruff to my west
Darrelljs: ruff is japan?
me: yep
Darrelljs: hmm I should be able to find you then if I can make my way through yaz and ruff
14:59 so order is Krill - Darrell - Yaz - Ruff - Square Leg - Dreylin
me: I have a work boat moving along the north of Ruff's land.
Darrelljs: I have on moving toward the north of Yaz's
me: That sounds right.
15:00 Darrelljs: I was thinking of asking if I could DoW to get through, but with those guys fighting I don't think it will happen.
me: Maybe they can share a fish somewhere between Yaz and ruff then!
Darrelljs: Even with a no scouting clause
hah-hah...yeah
me: No scouting clause????
Darrelljs: I FINALLY found some seafood
Well..map passing. If I were to go through yaz's lands then sell the info to ruff that woudl be bad.
I mean, I wouldn't do that but they might worry about it
Really silly to have an early war IMO.
15:01 me: I agree - hows relations with Krill?
Darrelljs: pretty warm actually
I think since he went for stonehenge he wanted to play nice. we have a nap and a tentative settling arrangement
15:02 Im sick to death of alliances due to PB3, but realistically thats how these games go
me: ok - Dreylin and I seem to be on good terms at the moment. He has pooey land though I think so it might create tensions...
Darrelljs: Next time 3v3 AW teamer so the alliances are done a priori and guaranteed fair.
15:03 It helps that there is tons of jungle and no seafood between Krill and me.
15:04 me: At least that draws out the negotiations on settling!
Darrelljs: heh0heh yeah
theres one spot that is in doubt..it has 3 sugar which is good but not great
15:05 the gems spots is cleary krills and the horse spot was clearly mine
I have Copper and Horse in one very lousy city
But I still grabbed it to make sure I could build units
me: Lack food?
Darrelljs: Yeah
I am sharing one food over form the capital
me: sux!
Darrelljs: going to be permanent I fear
15:06 Techwise I have sialing and masonry now, so I will be starting the GL soon
After that it will be a race to mono
I see OR as huge on a water map since production is whip focused.
me: Shame - My 2nd city is sharing food atm until borders pop in... no idea when!!
Darrelljs: I know...I skipped monuments since I plan on getting Judaism and OR, but man right now my second city is sucking wind
15:07 me: Nice work - I'll definitely be interested in Mono for trade if poss. Do you know if Dreylin is going that way?
Darrelljs: He indicated to me that he wasnt
me: At least with GLH it will be reasonable
Darrelljs: If he was being decpetive, it worked. I delayed my mono run to get Sailing.
15:08 I dont even know what religions have fallen yet, just havent paid attention.
me: I don't know what he is up to at the moment - he has been quite cagey about what techs he is going for - I think he may be left out of the initial trades...
Bud - Dreylin and Hind - Krill
Darrelljs: okay
15:09 makes sense I guess
me: I don't mind if he gets nothing in the first round! ;-)
Darrelljs: Heh...no, that would be good for you
I have to go back and see if I have any lined up with him.
I do with you, yaz and krill for sure.
actually I am not sure Yaz committed, I just know we atlked about it
15:10 Nice advantage of a short thread is that I can find out quickly
Our PB3 thread is so long you can't find anything in it
me: What about ruff? I haven't got anything lined up with him...
Darrelljs: let me check
15:11 Nothing in the initial round, but we've talked about round 2
me: The main techs for round 1 are all covered. You - Maths - Me alpha - yaz Monarchy krill IW
15:12 Darrelljs: I was planning on currency after and I think he was going Calendar
Pretty sure you could get alpha for calendar and then some
I get: Alphabet + Writing
He gets: Monotheism + Masonry + Mathematics
That's what I have for us
I have no deals in place with dreylin
15:13 me: Maybe - I'll try and sus him out. It wouldn't surprise me if he was cagey coz he was after a particular wonder... GLH or Oracle maybe
Darrelljs: I think he is the only one I don't even have talks with yet.
I hope I don't lose tGL.
That would be a big setback
My tech path is pretty much around that wonder
15:14 me: Well - no competition from me!
15:15 Have you seen how well it sorted plako out in RBPB2?
I was amazed!
Darrelljs: Its a nice wonder cause its passive
Everythign just goes up without having to work tiles or run specialists.
15:16 With my leader, I don't really have economic traits so I need something
me: true.
Darrelljs: Okay man I'm going to grab lunch...hope to meet you in game soon!
15:18 me: Enjoy your lunch - already had mine! cya!

mostly chit chat but quite a lot of info gleemed! Darrell's 2nd city is funk and he thinks his relationship with Krill is cordial... I'm not going to post my chats with Krill recently since they are numerous however - he thinks Darrell is a bit cold.

Either Krill is playing me or Darrell has got the wrong end of the stick. Something tells me that both could be true. Something about Darrells chats seem a little naive at times and Krill seems like he will often only say what is needed and nothing else. I could believe both at the moment!!!!

Krill and I have established one thing though - we are likely to be polar opposites on this map which should bode well for co-operation. Krill has a lot of experience in MP and so I think I can learn a lot from him. I consider myself a good SP player (Emporer - Monarch for more fun!) but MP is a different kettle of fish. I would be keen to form some sort of alliance with him but lets not get ahead of ourselves. This is a PBEM and moves much slower than the Pitboss.

No screenshots I'm afraid since I'm, ahem, at work - and silly busy so should get back to it. Finished my cup of char http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3016342.stm

[scooter]

btw - is anyone still reading this game? I guess there is a lot going on in the Pitboss games but now PBEM1 is done and this one starts to get to more interesting times, the lurkability will increase!

Yup, I'm definitely reading

[Square Leg]

Update with Screenshots!

Here is the homeland. Lords will start settler number 2 shortly as we have just got up to 3 workers.


By squareleg at 2010-03-17

Here is the land/sea between me and Ruff - note the phants!


By squareleg at 2010-03-17

Here is what I can see of Ruff and Yaz:


By squareleg at 2010-03-17

And here are the top5 cities - someone has city 2 at size 4 already! I know it isn't me, Dreylin or Ruff.


By squareleg at 2010-03-17

City 3 will grab the site north of lords and then city 4 will go for the phants. Hopefully I'll find some food up there.

[Rowain]

Thanks for the big update

You land looks quite nice and Phants are good to have especially if Byz is your neighbour.

[Square Leg]

Hey Rowain - yes - I really think phants are important since they are better a defending against Cataphracts than Pikes and are available much sooner! Formation on his Cats needs 10xp whereas Shock would only need 5xp.

I was considering sending this to both Yaz and Ruff although I am considering keeping my options open - more in a min.

Hi both,

Sitting Bull has had the pleasure of meeting both of your nations however was saddened to find you both gripped in war. We have many a peace pipe should you be interested? :-) The Native Americans would just like to state that we have no vested interest here and are not interested in carrying out subterfuge for either party.

You both have my word. To formalise this, I propose a NAP with both of your nations for the duration of your war to renegotiated when peace/if peace breaks out or on t50, whichever comes sooner. I hope this will allow you both to sort out your differences without having to worry about me interfering.

Obviously you will be interested in replying separately to this issue but I wanted to make it clear that both nations were getting the same offer.

Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Small print - both NAP's are independent of one another.

Now - if I can get a galley from somewhere and 2 dogs I might be able to raise Ruff's capital (or keep it!) I would like to investigate this option a little - the main problem is getting the galley. I'd either need sailing and then to build one (takes a lot of time!) or trade one from someone... Dreylin would be the only option in the timeframe. I don't think it will work. It depends on how long the war goes on for. I saw that Yaz had an Immortal on a hill near his cap last turn - see screenshot above and Ruff is connecting his copper. Ruff needs Archery really otherwise he may be in trouble - although Immortals get a bonus there too!

Of course - spearmen! - Lame that I forgot that...

[Square Leg]

Of course Ruff will be making spears... dogs eat them! Seriously considering a divert to sailing before alphabet...

[Square Leg]

Quick update. Email conflab with Dreylin:

Dreylinian I,

Just to let you know - I have now met Yaz. He is situated on the same island as Ruff further to the west. I am waiting 2t before entering his lands with OB since I can then short cut through his capital rather than take a longer route to the north.

I should hopefully meet Darrell next who has a WB in the area according to Yaz.


Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Sitting Bull,

Thanks for keeping me up to date with the contact situation; I should have a boat out fairly soon to head East so that at least between us we'll have met everyone.

My Scout survived his encounter with the Lion and has just-about reached the edge of the penninsula. I didn't realise there was so little land out past you, and probably would have been less bold in requesting the Copper spot had I known. By now your exploring Warrior may have spotted that I decided not to settle that spot with my second city (our extended NAP let me feel secure enough to not grab for the Copper straight away), so if you want to renegotiate for more land I'd be happy to do so.

Dreylinian I.

and my reply hot off the press:

Hey Dreylinian I,

No problem - your ep's are building up against me until you meet someone else so get cracking! ;-) I got the writing splash at the end of turn so if you can request OB when the save gets you please feel free to - if not then I'll do it on my turn. My warrior is poised to enter your lands next turn but can skirt around if OB are not in place straight away.

I am glad that you appreciate how tight the space is on our island. If the others are this tight then it is no wonder that one island has already come to blows! They must be hooligans unlike us!

I did have map knowledge of the area to my west when I negotiated the copper spot with you and so for you to offer me a "get out of jail free card" is very generous however, when we agreed the deal I used the statement " My main offer here is goodwill between our two nations."

People talk about taking risks in Civ to really get ahead and some of the best risks to be taken are those when you are most vulnerable at the start of the game. I am taking a risk here because you could easily try and run though me with Cataphracts when the time comes. This is the start of my mitigation against that. I hope that the Byzantines appreciate the goodwill that the Native Americans have shown by conceding this site and that we can build a long-term relationship.

So - in answer to your question - No, the deal is fine, but I appreciate having the chance to re-negotiate.

Cheers,
Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

When I signed the deal I knew that I was being generous - after all - I could have gone and claimed that spot easily with my UU available so early. So why not you ask?? Read the above. This is a risk - it might back fire - I am just trying to tug on Dreylins goodwill strings here and hope that he sees this in the same way as I do and wants to work with me.

Ruff and Yaz are at war and so slowing their progress ultimately. In a few turns I will hopefully have a secure friend on one side of me and a war torn aquaintance on the otherside... Wonder where the smack down might occur?

All speculation at the moment but it is important to have a friend - the worlds a lonely place otherwise!

Onto the domestic front. I completed writing at the interturn meaning the list of techs I know is:

Mining
Hunting
The Wheel
Agriculture
Fishing
Pottery
AH
BW
Writing

Some options:

Myst (4t) - for totem poles.
Archery (4t) - err... for Archers
Sailing (6t) for trade routes (Ruff and Dreylin atm but probably Yaz soon...)
Alphabet (24t!!!)

I think the best option here is Sailing. Might be able to shave it down to 5t since I just completed my first cottage - although it isn't being worked yet becuase Lords is building a settler for my third city - due in 4t iirc.

Trent Bridge as it shall be known will share the pigs with Lords and also have Desert Copper hill, Plains Horses and a clam to work. Should be a solid site. I have whipped Lords a little bit to get workers out so it has a bit of time to go on letting that wear off so TB should be able to borrow the pigs from the start and grow super quick!

Sailing will also mean that I can get a galley from somewhere to go and claim those elephants! : I'll be getting HBR from Krill in a trade and construction will be available to research shortly afterwards, not to mention the happy from the ivory - I hope there is some food available up there...

[pocketbeetle]

Considering I walk by one of them every day, I'm ashamed at how long it took me to figure out your naming scheme.

Looks like you're in a nice position SL, keep rocking! =)