[SPOILERS] Serdoa - PBEM47

[Bigger]

I didn't even know you were going for the pyramids!

Do you have currency already?

[Serdoa]

Yeah, I guess I didn't really report on that. On T54 I found stone, redirected my settler that was in the south to settle instead in the north, settled him on T58 with a full road connection ON stone. Unfortunately Pyramids were finished after I played T58. It had only taken till T61 for me to get them. Oh well, probably dumb idea to try it even at that point in the game. And of course to have not scouted there earlier. Anyhow, the Stone city itself is quite good (fish, clam, settled on desert hill stone, oasis, 1 floodplains).

And no, I still don't have Currency. I'm not doing that bad in research (50 beakers at breakeven now), but getting Pyramids would have helped immensly. Especially as I would have finally switched into Slavery (and Rep.). Guess I'll not be in Slavery in all this game...

[Serdoa]

To expand on that: I thought about Currency. If I can produce wealth, I could put three of my cities on that, producing around 40 commerce per turn. That should cover nearly all my expenses and let me either tech like crazy or get several more cities up and running. I ... intend to do this. Later.

[Bigger]

well I realize this is AW so you will only get +1 routes.. but yeah you need something to build (markets help, and wealth too) and the extra routes will help.. so with your crashed economy I just assumed you would want currency before COL or Calender.

I don't thinnk it was a mistake to try for pyramids. especially since you only missed it by 3 turns. as you say, it would have helped you tremendously, and you pretty much have to try once you get stone.

[Serdoa]

Yeah, the fault was really in not scouting there earlier. Instead of sending 3 Quechuas to fool around in Gaspars land I should have used them to scout. Oh well. As for my economy: I don't think it is that bad tbh. I do lead GNP, even while researching Fishing at break-even. Of course I do have a good amount of culture in there, but so do most others as far as I can see.

[Serdoa]

Seven nearly closed the gap to me in food... crashing his economy in the process it seems. I'm pretty sure he can recover, but by now he seems to have a GNP of around 50. With approx. 6-7 cities each making at least 2 culture (capital 4) + 4 esp. thats 30 commerce left. Not much. From the culture graphs it does not look like I have more culture than he does, but my GNP is better certainly, even at 0% I'm approx. 20 GNP ahead.

mackoti on the other hand closed the gap to me in food, as I expected, and is having the next most MfG (mine 76 against his 58). At least I expect it is him. I might be wrong, but I doubt it, as score indicates that he is the only one keeping up in growth. I ... did not expect that this would be a running between him and me tbh. I thought it is IMP giving us a headstart, but really, this headstart is now holding for quite some time already. I certainly could have reached this position by now even without IMP. I'd even say that EXP was more important for the cheap Terraces. IMP only helped for some quick early cities, what certainly helped getting more workers as well. But again, that shouldn't be that much of a difference. A settler is 44 hammers with IMP, 65 without. IF you produce it completely with hammers. The land certainly was laid in a way that one could achieve a high hammer-ratio on his foodhammers so I would expect that I probably invested 50fh for each settler. So 15fh saved. On 6 settlers (I really don't count the last two as one hasn't contributed so far and the other one isn't even settled yet). Thats 90fh, so around 2,5 workers with EXP. Thats not that much. With some better worker micro I probably could have saved one worker anyhow. And I didn't use Slavery at all - I still haven't adopted it. I am pretty sure with Slavery I could have produced easily even more workers / settlers as I did (just my economy wouldn't let me afford it, 8 gold per city is harsh). So yeah, I think everyone else should have had the opportunity to catch up by now with ease. Explanation I have is only war. But that shouldn't have been that extreme by now, should it?

Anyhow. I will settle soon my first island-city. I think at least that it will be one. If so, I should get 2c trade-routes, basically the same as if I had teched Currency. Instead I teched Calendar, or am at it right now. Should take me only 3 more turns. CoL next. Grow all cities to size 10, settle a shitload more while getting Currency -> CS -> Paper -> Education -> Philo -> Lib (and whatever I forgot on the way to Lib ).

[Fintourist]

I think this map has been pretty suitable for IMP (as are almost all RB maps that are not crammed). You have had lot of good sites available and it has made sense to build many settlers this early. How I see, IMP is that it does not only save hammers, it also reduces the number of turns where you stagnate your city and that puts you ahead in the growth curve (kind of a mini-snowball). Of course, that's the same thing and nothing new, but at least I tend to focus on pure hammer savings when thinking about IMP.

I find it also interesting that you have not used Slavery, but yeah, 1 anarchy turn saved is always good and IMP and EXP make your tiles effectively better and less whippable.

And finally, well played so far. I'm absolutely not suggesting that EXP/IMP is a some kind of overpowered combo.

[Serdoa]

Thanks.

As for your point on IMP and our maps: Of course land-quality has influence on how good you can leverage IMP. If I look at my PB8 start for example, IMP would have been a waste. I did not have any expansion spot except one. But I think that is a really, really bad start all things considered. On an average start I think IMP will play pretty strong. Without toroidal maps (which are most PBEMs by now) it would be crazy. I could have probably expanded out to 15+ cities by now. Well, I had 7 at T40 so yeah, I could easily be at 15 now. Kinda sad I didn't do that but I needed some time to get a commerce-core going.

Anyhow, in general I agree, you do need to have spots you want to expand to for IMP to be worth it. It is certainly a very circumstancial trait as well. Would I be better off with FIN? Yeah, I guess so. ORG though would probably be my first choice if I could repick. I could be at this point without IMP as well (I have wasted several turns on military that I didn't really need + I did build nearly everywhere Barracks by now, again something I wouldn't have to do) but with ORG I could now really start surging ahead of everyone else, by building Courthouses and keep expanding + my costs would already be less for the civic cost reduction, so I would have had expanded already (I mean I am at 9 cities now and will have 12 soon). Cheaper Lighthouses would be nice as well though not really necessary. But investing 40 hammers to get a Courthouse? I would need a total of 4 turns in my WEAKEST hammer-city to get it built.

As for Slavery: It was not so much about the 1 turn saved (though that was the initial reason to delay and finally abandon the switch). It was mainly because I simply saw no reason to get it. All those cities are so strong in hammer-potential but food-starved that even with Terraces in place, I'd rather not whip them for the hammers. That probably is not the optimal play, but again, I wouldn't even know what to build with the whips.

[Serdoa]

I still wait for the point when I fuck up, but for now, despite not getting Pyramids, I seem to be doing fine:



Score after hitting end turn:



Demos:



11 cities, next turn 12. 14 workers for those, thats around 10 missing - mainly because I would need to improve several tiles, now that I can grow again via Calendar-happy. 85 gold cost per turn. ~180 or so beakers per turn at max research.

Next plans: Get Currency and Courthouses, grow all cities to size 10+ and expand to around 25 cities in the next 25 turns. Don't crush the economy in the process. THAT one could get tricky

[Commodore]

What's your break-even rate? That GNP gold-saving, or what?