[SPOILERS] Dazed and Whosit walk the line: Darius of Egypt

[Serdoa]

On EOT25 the border of the cap pop again, getting the crabs into borders.

[Whosit]

Maybe I missed something, but I thought you proposed placing the 2nd city so that it wasn't adjacent to the lake, meaning we couldn't build a Workboat to improve the Crabs.

Also, I am experiencing problems with my internet so if you don't hear from me for a while I probably can't get online. Hopefully it will be sorted out quickly, though.

[Serdoa]

2N of the crabs is a hill next to the lake. Valid spot to build a workboat.

[dazedroyalty]

I moved SE again and revealed nothing of interest. I don't have a picture at the moment. Also, there are a number of outstanding things to discuss. Most importantly though, we finished Hunting at the end of the turn. So we have to pick the tech order ASAP. I'm leaning towards mining. It's not how I would play on my own but I think it will put us in a stronger position.

2N of crabs seems like a good choice to me based on current info.

Whosit, I really appreciate the effort that you point into opponent analysis. I'll be responding in more detail soon. I know most of the other players in the game well enough to add some player reflection as well.

[Serdoa]

I've played a little bit around with it in order to get AH first, directly after Hunting. We need it anyhow early on half the food we have is an AH-resource. And if we don't use Slavery - which we don't want to in the capital, at least not on the 5 and 6 yield tiles - the chops alone might not be good enough reason to get it.

Long story short, this would be a possible micro-plan

In short: Warrior -> settler (interchanged with warrior to grow) -> Worker -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Settler
Techpath: Hunting -> AH -> Mining -> BW -> Fishing -> Pottery

Seems low on Workers at first, but all cities are working improved tiles, except for 3 turns in which each 1 unimproved tile is worked. And more workers wouldn't prevent one of those. There would be no road connection between the two cities, but we would make so much commerce via Fur + Sheep, that it should not matter in the slighest (this is btw not calculated into research as I am too lazy to do that in my Excel-table right now as it is unimportant for the important parts of that microplan).

At T22 the second city would already be settled. As for the spot I choose: It is 1NE of the furs. I know, I know, why would I do that? Because we get the furs and pigs in first ring and the crabs will be in our borders by T25 when borders of the cap pop. We would at most work them for 2 turns before that, so at most that is 6 commerce that we potentially lose. But the spot itself is MUCH better than at the lake, because 1st ring pig and furs. Quite honestly, settling at the lake without any way to pop borders is worthless.

On T28 it could already be at size 3. Capital would finish the next settler T29, which could settle the hill on the lake (2N of crabs) on T32.Though that really depends what is in the fog. Anyhow, we would still be at 2 workers at that point, but the capital would be free to churn them out in 3t each. And if you forgo some commerce and mine a hill at the 2nd city instead of camping the furs, than that city can make 4t workers as well. Plus I actually don't see the need for more at that point, as all cities have improved tiles to work.

In comparison to my first idea we do not only save several forests but will have 2 cities sizes 4 and 3 (instead of 3 and 2), will have 3 warrior as well, 2 workers as well, but many more improved tiles, more research-power and a stronger second city that can already produce stuff instead of slowly growing and building a workboat. All around I think that is the better plan. What do you guys think? And is my plan even readable for you? I am so used to working with my Excel-tables by now, that I am not sure if it is understandable for someone not having seen them before.

[pindicator]

Oooh, VLOOKUP table
That looks like it can get unwieldly after a few cities. How far into a game do you usually plan with this spreadsheet?

[dazedroyalty]

Serdoa, that looks really good. I'm super impressed! You're putting the "dedicated" into "dedicated lurker!"

I must confess I don't know waht a VLOOKUP table is.

[Serdoa]

T40 maybe. It really is not that helpful later on when you have more cities. I do have a separate table for several cities at once, that does ignore research (too complicated for me with trade routes etc.). But to be honest, I often do not make elaborate microplans later on. If I want to get a wonder or some such then I do it. But apart from that it seems to much work, for not really all that much gain. At the start I feel that saving a turn on the 2nd worker or the settler can really be helpful, but later on the question is more "What do I build and why?" and less "how can I build it fastest?". Especially as it seems that getting the next settler on T80 or T81 is seldomly making the difference. And you normally know when it does, so you can take care of it.

Also, I normally waste several days on my microplans in the early game. Would I be as thorough later on, I would need 48 hours, just to plan my next turn

(As an aside: I'd like to point a the green cells - those change their color, depending on if you've missed to assign a pop or if you have too many assigned. I'm proud of that, even though it is just cell coloring via the excel-functionality with some added formulas.)

[Serdoa]

Oh, and one thing: Since I've done that table, I have a heck of a lot respect for the programming guys. It was so hard to get the formulas correct for food and growth, as you have to check if a settler or worker is build, if so, add nothing to food and just take what is written above. But not if the food last turn was higher than the food-treshold for growth, in that case calculate the new food in the box and treshold. Of course, Anarchy must be checked as well. And the food calculation changes with Granaries of course. And to do all that, first you have to calculate the actual food produced this turn. Which needs to take into account how much population you have. And not forget the joys of whips. Oh no... that is really awful. Especially if you whip (reduce pop) but grow the next turn. And build that next turn a settler - or have Anarchy.

And the worst is, that I am pretty certain this could be much easier if I just had made non-visible cells that hold the values for pop and food produced and other stuff. Instead I do calculate all within one formula, using if...then...else.

[Serdoa]

Serdoa, that looks really good. I'm super impressed! You're putting the "dedicated" into "dedicated lurker!"

I must confess I don't know waht a VLOOKUP table is.

Thanks Dazed I do love this part of the game. If I could, I would play in every single game on RB, but only for the first 40 turns.

As for VLookup: It is a functionality in Excel. The vlookup-formula takes a search criteria (for example the numbers you see in worked tiles), matches it against a table (the one with the actual tile yield in the right part of the screenie) and returns the requested column (for food the third column of the tile yield table). That way I calcuate depending on the tiles I listed via numbers on the worked tiles cells how much food, hammers and commerce the city generates every turn. Makes it much easier to change tiles around and try different approaches without having to recalculate all the numbers on your own.