[PB60] Lazteuq and Civac

[civac2]

Thx. I downloaded it. A grain resource in the northwest would actually be great since Agriculture is cheap.

Another option to consider is to go for Fishing and settle the second city on the plains hill 3S. The issue with that is the lack of BW to chop out the workboat (and that clams suck, of course). The upside would be the ability to work the whale with the capital increasing our research output, as would the clams once they are online.

The city spots 3E and 3W1N are decent but for a second city they are decidedly not good enough. The spot at 3E would be OKish if the capital can work the improved cattle and preferably the whale too. Before AH the spot is terrible. The spot 3W1N is OK if and only if there is another food resource in the fog. The best city spot currently visible next to 3S is the gold/cattle/fish location in the southeast but it's too far away and still only OK, not great.

[civac2]

We are barely 7 turns in and I already dislike our position. 

The variant with Fishing -> BW and settling the clams is the one I dislike the least.

Settler t28, worker t33, settler t37 with two warriors. The second city at the clams is terrible but all other options are arguably even worse. With a bit of luck there is a viable city spot in the floodplains valley.


Curse Mjmd for his leader/civ choice. If not for him we could chop out Stonehenge which is amazing here.

[civac2]

OK, going to bed. We still have 21 hours. Can we discuss this tomorrow (via Discord maybe)? I'll be available in 10 hours and then essentially until the turn would roll.

[Lazteuq]

Sure, we can use discord. Are you on the Realms Beyond server? You can find me there.

Yeah this is a really uncomfortable position. I wonder if we wouldn't have settled on the sugar if we'd simmed it first.
Clam spot does look ok. I'd forgotten about the 3-food Whale-o-the-Lake requiring Fishing to use.

I just tested settler t27, stonehenge t32. Do you think that's early enough to probably beat Mjmd? As I said a few days ago, I don't like going for really early wonders, BUT I agree that stonehenge would be amazing. I think it's worth seriously delaying a second worker, especially since our workers don't have much to do.
I'm not certain T32 is early enough, but I think it probably is.
Edit: Looking at recent games, the earliest date I can find is T31 from PB54, and the next earliest is T37 in PB51. Those were both IND leaders.

[Lazteuq]

We have a plan for Turn 31 Stonehenge! Probably with founding a second city on Turn 32.
This will leave us behind the growth curve, and also behind on exploration, but I think it's worth it. I'd say Stonehenge is at least twice as important here as on the "average" map. For all we know, Mjmd might be thinking the exact same thing though.

We're bringing the scout back up north to see what food resources are near the floodplain valley. If it's an agri resource, we'll go for that after BW. Otherwise, we'll probably go Fishing and settle the clam/whale site.
Confirmed that's an island on the western coast:

[civac2]

Huh, there is another fishing resource down there. I was hoping for that but didn't expect it. If we do get Stonehenge we could found the city on the grasland forest south of the plains hill it was initially meant to go on. Would still be slightly underpowered for a second city but not embarrassing anymore. But yeah, still holding out for a wheat or corn or even a coastal fish in the north west.

[Lazteuq]

Things are looking pretty good up here.

The stonehenge timing works well, we will know if we got it just before founding the city.

[Tarkeel]

Have you decided where to plant the city? I'd love to hear more about the stonehenge plans, it sounds very interesting.

[Lazteuq]

Sorry about leaving lurkers in the dark, that wasn't the intent.
We haven't decided on the second city yet. We don't need to commit for another 8 turns when BW is done, so that gives time to continue scouting more north. I'm thinking the wheat-sheep-pig area would be good for maximum food. By the time the wheat is done being farmed, we should get AH. Unfortunately it's dry plains wheat, so it's not even that great of a food tile.

For stonehenge, here's the details:
Worker->Warrior->Start stonehenge->Reach size4->Settler-Whip at 4-2pop with max overflow->Finish stonehenge.
The worker will build a plains hill mine and chop two forests. This leaves our fat cross with two forests remaining, except one of them might be used by the clam city.
The warrior will have time to wander a bit further south and hopefully meet someone else (Not GKC please!)

[civac2]

With what's visible now I would tend to research Fishing -> AH and leave Agriculture for later, though Fishing -> Agriculture -> AH would not be terrible either. As you said it depends on if we do get Stonehenge to an extent.