[Spoilers] luddite tries to remember how this game works

[chumchu]

Vicky of India then? We might found a religion for happy and culture which is lacking in the pick.

A reason to pick India is to chop faster so bronze working early is important.

The religion approach: deer west, deer east, mine pig, chop i to settler. Here India saves a worker turn with each step. Tech path is hunting, meditation, bronze working.

The A-H approach: deer west, deer east, pasture pig, mine hill, chop into settler. Hunting, A-h, Bronze working.

We will also need fishing quite early for the other cities. With financial it will be a good source of early commerce.

[luddite]

India or Inca, I don't really have a strong preference either way. I feel like "India vs. Inca" is one of the eternal debates of Realms Beyond... did anyone solve it while I was gone? XD. I think Krill was on side Inca, so I'm inclined to take his word for Inca. But "Victoria of India" is worth it for the memes, right?

I realize India is better for chopping, but unfortunately we don't have a lot of forests here. On the other hand, we also don't have any sites (within the visible range) that really require an early culture pop via terraces.

I don't think I'll be starting an early religion. I mean, if I get to wheel and bronze working and AH and the religions are still up for grabs, then, sure, I'll give it a whack. But I'm guessing they'll go to one of the people with a better start, AKA: literally everyone else. And +1 happiness isn't worth slowing down my start. I can go back for one of the more advanced religions later, if necessary.

[Mjmd]

Victoria of India

[luddite]

Thanks Mjmd.

Shame the starting techs are so bad for India... mining/mysticism is an awkward combo. I may have to delay Animal Husbandry until after pottery. Or vice versa...

[luddite]

So that's the start (assuming it doesn't change).
Here's my vague plan:
settle on the plains hill 2N. I lose a turn moving, but the first worker will still finish on turn 12. then it's a free hammer ever after, and closer to the main land area
research hunting , Bronze Working, fishing
chop/whip the first settler after improving deer
settle above that fish in the NE, chop out a work boat
build another settler (just one worker), whip it out
research wheel
settle that one in the southwest for fish, silver, crabs
research pottery, fix economy
settle two more cities, hopefully after exploring the map i'll find some better locations. but otherwise SE pigs and NW wheat will do.
???? start preparing for war? 

weird alternative plan: start with a settler first and research fishing right away. IMP + weak starting location is one of the few times when settler first can make sense.

[luddite]

One potential problem: I was planning to 4-pop whip the artillery, since they cost 150 and I have no production boosts for units. But, a 4-pop requires an 8-pop city... and my happiness will only be 6 in the capital, 5 everywhere else, with silver and no other early happiness. calendar will help a lot, but that's so far away... any other practical early source of happiness?

[chumchu]

The 8 pop problem is why I argue for religion + monarchy if you can get it early as it is faster than calendar.

Moving 2 north is questionable IMO. You get a turn 12 worker by 1 turn moving and missing 5 turns working the forest deer. SIP already gives you a 12 turn worker. So you gain no turns but lose 1 turn of research. You also delay improving the forest deer with 1 turn which means you are behind on food curve even if you are 1 ahead in production per turn. You also delay working the pigs until city 2 even though it is your strongest tile.

If you do move north your city 2 really have to go between fish and pigs. Also, you will pay extra distance maintenance on silver city. But on the positive it enables settling east of silver.

[luddite]

The 8 pop problem is why I argue for religion + monarchy if you can get it early as it is faster than calendar.

It's a hard choice! I'd love to have an early religion, I just think someone else will get there faster with their better starts. But possibly I could get the monotheism religion en-route to monarchy. But then I have to hope the religion spreads, and waste hammers on warriors for HR happiness.

One advantage of the calendar is that the techs on that route are quite useful to me. Sailing, for galleys, and math for better chops.

Moving 2 north is questionable IMO. You get a turn 12 worker by 1 turn moving and missing 5 turns working the forest deer. SIP already gives you a 12 turn worker. So you gain no turns but lose 1 turn of research. You also delay improving the forest deer with 1 turn which means you are behind on food curve even if you are 1 ahead in production per turn. You also delay working the pigs until city 2 even though it is your strongest tile.

If you do move north your city 2 really have to go between fish and pigs. Also, you will pay extra distance maintenance on silver city. But on the positive it enables settling east of silver.

Yeah it's not a huge gain. It's just for the long-term benefit of 1 hammer. I don't have to delay improving deer, I could improve the non-forest deer thanks to fast workers. It does delay the pigs, but I think it'll be a long time before I can get AH anyway, since I'm pretty sure I want bronze working and pottery before AH.

I was actually thinking of settling city 2 north of fish, then backfilling later something south of the pigs. I do like being able to settle east of silver, and that's probably where city 3 will go. But I could also do that by just moving 1N.
...what are the odds that moving causes me to settle on top of horses/copper? that would be annoying.

[luddite]

Nevermind, you're right about Settling in place. I can immediately improve the forest deer, then the non-forest deer, then mine the pigs, all without losing any worker turns. And the mined-pig can be shared between the capital and the second city if I settle it between fish and pigs.

[luddite]

I think happiness will be OK. Or at least, it's not my biggest problem. With financial and all those river/coastal tiles, the early research really flies by. Which is sort of a double edged sword- everyone else will be flying along also, so I don't think there's any chance I can hit someone before they get iron/horseback riding at the least. But in a sim, I was able to get calendar at turn 80, while still focusing mostly on production.

At least there's a lot of hills in this start, so I don't have to totally rely on slavery. Growing up to size 6 and doing 3-pop whips seemed to work well. I didn't feel too squeezed for happiness. I was able to produce a nice stack of 5 artillery, 3 AT, and 3 galleys by turn 91. With a little more tweaking and optimizing, I could probably get that up to 5 artillery, 5 AT, and 5 galleys, which would be a nice strike force. Or alternatively: skip the galleys and just add archers/axes instead for cheap mop-up killers.