[SPOILERS] Twinkletoes - Deutschland, Deutschland über alles!

[Twinkletoes89]

Well after a busy day at cricket, I can finally update you guys over another turn in this game. I think I shall have to think of another cookie giveaway to celebrate my discovery of copper!

Scouting Results

Nothing much from Ryan Giggs (Scout) - still bringing him across the tundra to start fogbusting my NE corner.



Paul Scholes (Warrior and now legend for his last minute goal v City) has unveiled another few hidden tiles but nothing particularly delectable. Hoping for another food resource in the near future.



Inside Cha Cha Cha



In the end, switching to the water tile slows down the worker build by a turn and didn't affect the research time either. Will get some use out of it soon though, I am sure.

After the worker is complete, I will likely grow the city to size 3 or 4 with 2 warrior builds so I can work the water tile plus the silver mine and deer camp (when improved). After that I will hit on a quick settler so I can hopefully set up city two on or near the copper or the production city I dotmapped earlier.

My one consideration is whether to change research to Archery next turn and then my two growth builds can be Archers instead of warriors. That would also mean I could plant my second city away from the copper and not take a big defensive hit. The diversion in turns of Oracle Time will likely be around 4/5 turns but I think it may be worth it.

With raging barbs around the corner I don't want to lose my first settler on a bad roll, and an Archer guard instead of a warrior guard will make that less likely.

Plus I really like the first city site I discovered, and I think that could be the perfect place to get the Oracle out in quick time, but that is a plan to be made a bit further down the line.

I hope these musings aren't too long for you guys, I just like laying out my thoughts in text!

[Twinkletoes89]

Well another turn, another discovery, another dotmap :-P

My intrepid Warrior Scout has found the food resource I was looking for for the copper city. It still doesn't seem remarkably strong but I think it is enough to be my second city.



My tundra scout is near some fog to bust again, but still nothing new yet.



Now lets have a look inside my city again (although nothing much has changed, again)



Soon my worker will be complete! I shall stay with warrior builds and avoid archery for now as I will use my scout warrior plus another build warrior to defend the settler to ensure its security (I hope).




In other news, there is a capital at Size 4 already ()! That must be a couple of warrior scouts being built, or a barracks, whilst working two food resources is my guess. No other civ is on size 2 yet other than mine so there must be a worker/worker or settler build first up and that's not the way I want to play it - seems a bit crazy as the build is long and the capital is stuck at a very low level.

Enjoy

[Twinkletoes89]

Lurkers, Lurkers everywhere but not one to speak! Got to keep the post count lead as I am only 5-6 posts in front now!

Well another turn has rolled and I have my usual screenshots for your perusal.

Scouting Results

Paul Scholes (Warrior)



Ryan Giggs (Scout)




Inside Cha Cha Cha



Worker in 2, Wheel in 3.

Foreign News



Finally another civ has reached the magical Size 2 capital!

[Rowain]

Lurkers, Lurkers everywhere but not one to speak!

So beware that you don't kill the Beast of good Omen else you become the 'Ancient Poster '

[Twinkletoes89]

Nice one Rowain!

Well you guys get spoiled in this thread! I am currently in the middle of building the game in worldbuilder using every tile I have uncovered so far and to calculate just how useful the two prospective city spots are.

Considering I've never used worldbuilder before - this is taking a lot of time and effort - plus one computer crash just before saving half of it

[Twinkletoes89]

Well then guys, you really are going to be spoiled now! In the last few hours (as I have had too much free time) I have fully built the land I have scouted and now will attempt to do some analysis on Cha Cha Cha and my two proposed city sites.

In this post, I shall focus on my capital - Cha Cha Cha



Now I have been reading a lot of articles on CivFanatics in particular and so this is my attempt at 'surveying' the quality of my capital.

Basic Instincts

Well with a double river valley alongside a riverside grassland hill Silver, this has got to be cottage cheese central. With two strong food tiles, this should be quite monstrous when it gets going.

Useable Tiles - 18 out of 21 (three peaks) = 36 food for full usage

Now for a commerce heavy capital - these are the tiles I could have at my disposal.

Food Surplus Tiles
Grassland Corn - 5f (with Agriculture & Farm)
Grassland Deer - 5f, 1c (with Camp)
City Tile - 2f, 1c (all surplus)

Total = 12f, 1c = Using 2 tiles (4f) = Surplus of 8f

Food Neutral Tiles
5 Grassland River Towns - 10f, 25c
1 Grassland Town - 2f, 4c
1 Water Tile 2f,2c

Total = 16f, 32c

Food Deficit Tiles
2 Grassland Hill Towns - 2f, 10c
1 Grassland Hill Silver Mine - 1f, 6c

Total = 3f, 16c = using 3 pop = 3f deficit

To use all the tiles used for this gauge, I would need a population of 12.

I have a surplus of 8f from all Food tiles and a deficit of 3f from the Mines and Hill Towns, so I could work all 12 tiles with a food surplus of 5f. This means I could go up to SIZE 14 if I had enough health.

If I had the health to work all 12 tiles, I would end up producing a total of 49c per turn

That means that with Civil Service and revolting to Bureaucracy, it would produce a very nice 73c per turn and if I then went on to include a Bank (+50%), Grocer (+25%) and Market (+25%) I could get quite a large yield eventually.

Basic Health Breakdown

Size 10 can be catered for quite quickly, and Aqueducts (+2 health) aren't a million miles away to really get the money flowing and work all 12 tiles! Mathematics and Masonry will be huge for this city! If I get enough health to go up to size 14, it would be worthwhile to run two specialists or 2 plains hill mines.

+2 from Fresh Water
+2 from Expansive trait
+2 from Difficulty
+1 from Corn
+1 from Deer
+1 from Sheep (Production Site)
+1 Granary
--------------------------------
+10 Total

The major obstacle to reaching this target is HAPPINESS. This should hopefully be resolved by Hereditary Rule and some military police plus the silver.

Overall, it looks like I have a rather pretty capital, so as long as I can get it up pretty quickly I should have a pretty strong researching capital. I must defend it with my life.

Now I may be wrong but it seems like my calculations are pretty accurate this time around. I know you lurkers probably can't correct my figures, but if someone could reassure me that my method is relatively sound I would be very thankful!

Next up, Production City

[Twinkletoes89]

In this post, I shall focus on my first proposed 'Second City' now to be known as - Production City



Basic Instincts

With a plains hill capital plus five other plains hills and two grassland hills, this has got to be considered a pretty strong production city, hence the title.

Useable Tiles - 18 out of 21 (three peaks) = 36 food for full usage

Now for a production heavy capital - these are the tiles I could have at my disposal.

Food Surplus Tiles
Grassland Sheep - 5f (with Animal Husbandry & Pasture)
Grassland Deer - 5f, 1h (with Camp)
2 Grassland (irrigated) Farms - 6f
City Tile - 2f, 2h, 1c

Total = 18f, 3h from 4 population. Surplus = 10f

Food Deficit Tiles
5 Plains Hill Mines - -10f, 20h
2 Grassland Hill Mines - -2f, 6h

Total = -12f, 26h

With the surplus of only 10f, I can only afford to work all five PH mines or 4 PH and 2 GH mines.

Five PH Mines produces 20h (size 9)
Four PH plus 2 GH Mines produces 22h (size 10)

Therefore ideally I would go for Size 10 which would mean a nice base of 25h per turn (22 from mines, 2 from city, 1 from Deer Camp)

Unfortunately I do not have enough Health factors at this time to run at size 10.

Basic Health Breakdown

Early on, size 8 is the maximum until a new resource is found or I get up to building Aqueducts. Once I hit that I can work up to the maximum size until Biology comes around.

+2 from Expansive trait
+2 from Difficulty
+1 from Corn (from Cha Cha Cha)
+1 from Deer
+1 from Sheep
+1 Granary
--------------------------------
+8 Total

At Size 8, I can only run 4 PH mines, meaning a base of 19h per turn.

Now in this case, a Forge would not be a prudent investment at size 8 as I would have to lose a plains hill (4h) to account for the loss of 1 health. This would leave me with a base of 15h which with the forge (25% increase) would mean a base of 18.75h per turn. So a forge actually LOSES hammers in this case.

Getting an Aqueduct changes things as I would be able to grow to size 10 which means that with a base of 25h, I would gain 6.25 hammers meaning a new total of 31.25h per turn. Add Organized Religion (if I gain a religion) and up it goes to 39h per turn for buildings, nice and handy.

Final Thoughts

Although I am disappointed that I will not have the food surplus to use all the plains mines until Biology, it is still a pretty nice production city and with so many hills there's not really anything else this city is capable of doing soundly.

The other major issue is that I need Agriculture and Animal Husbandry before I can work a decent amount of mines. As I am not planning on getting them until after Priesthood for The Oracle, I may need to make this city three so I can gain the techs to get it going by using two commerce heavy cities.

[Twinkletoes89]

In this final post, I shall focus on the copper city site hereby dubbed (originally) - Copper City



Basic Instincts

The copper is nice! Two food resources (albeit duplicated elsewhere) are handy but this city seems to smack of a 'jack of all trades, master of none' city.

Three tiles on the outer ring have fresh water - but even after civil service its a rubbish GP farm. With only 1f surplus from each of the food resources its a naff production city.

That means commerce is its only potential saviour.

Useable Tiles - 17 out of 21 (four peaks) = 34 food for full usage

Now for a commerce city - the plains are worthless in the main. Copper and PH Mines useful for production when needed - i.e building needed buildings.

Food Surplus Tiles
PH Deer - 3f (with Agriculture & Farm)
PH Sheep - 3f, 1c (with Camp)
City - 2f, 1c
1 Grassland (Irrigated) Farm = 3f

Total = 11f, 1c = surplus of 5f

Food Neutral Tiles
5 Grassland Town - 12f, 20c

Total = 14f, 25c = surplus of 0

Food Deficit Tiles
1 Copper Mine = -1f + 5h
1 PH Mine = -2f + 4h
2 Plains Towns = -2f + 8c

Total = -5f, 9h, 8c = deficit of 5f

(Thanks to rejigged maths) My surplus is equal to the deficit, meaning that I have enough food to work all those tiles. Sacrificing one grassland town for two plains towns means a gain of 4c.

If I want to use all cottages and both mines, I need a population of 12
If I want to use all cottages and no mines, I need a population of 10 (but control growth)

Using all cottages, I get a commerce total of 34c per turn

Its not a huge amount of commerce being produced, but it's not bad and once later modifiers kick in, it might become quite impressive.

Basic Health Breakdown

Like Production city, I can only reach size 8 healthily right now, which means one tile has to be sacrificed for a while, at least until Aqueducts are available.

+2 from Expansive trait
+2 from Difficulty
+1 from Corn
+1 from Deer
+1 from Sheep (Production Site)
+1 Granary
--------------------------------
+8 Total

I would have a stronger commerce city at the capital and starting with two commerce cities isn't too great, but it could contribute quite well to my research push and can get up to speed quicker than Production City as it doesn't need Agriculture and AH to get up and running with commerce. I will need some production for defending against barbs and building any needed wonders, but it requires 2 tech diversion from my Oracle plan to get going.

I hope you have enjoyed reading this bloody hard work!

[Kyan]

Two comments.

Firstly, that is superb work and mega informative. As a lurker- top notch.

Secondly, where the hell have you been? Feel free to do a similar analysis for Babylon anytime (and i've saved you a worldbuilder job too! :neenernee )

[Twinkletoes89]

Hahaha thanks Ky!

I'm on a roll right now, send me the WB file and I'll see what I can do for you if you like!

I'm just glad it seems to add up!