Horselover Fat's journal - Iskender and the Hippus

[Maksim]

Hi, Iskender!

First of all, thanks for picking this up and posting in this thread - we'd really like to know your thinking behind your decisions. For me, it's an uncharted territory to start in such a forest-y location as non-elves.

Can you explain your reasoning behind the location of your third city and future expansion plans? I'm curious as to whether you are trying to do a land-grab towards Bob, are aiming for the resources, or just see the land there as better?

Thanks!
P.S. Also, do you want to ask the moderators to edit the thread title to put your name in it? It does help the lurkers as well.

[Iskender]

Hello there

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I've played a lot of single player FFH games and some real-time multiplayer, but this is my first pbem (one of two actually, and I enjoy both a lot, finaly multiplayer feels like TBS not RTS)

Can you explain your reasoning behind the location of your third city and future expansion plans? I'm curious as to whether you are trying to do a land-grab towards Bob, are aiming for the resources, or just see the land there as better

First, I wanted to grab a luxury resource with the 3rd city. The gems were out of question - there was only one 2+ food tile in the area (cows/plains) and I didn't even have AH. So I was left with the wine. The only tiles that had it within BFC and were reasonably close to the capital were the desert and the reagents/hills 1S. Already having two (eventually) high-commerce cities I wanted the 3rd to be a production one. Production-wise the desert spot had more potential, with 3 hills and 5 plains/forest against 2 hills, with only 1 being workable before 1st borders pop, and 2 plains/forest)

The reasons for chosing the D spot for 4th city are pretty much the same, except this time I won't ignore tile defense. I guess I'm going to compete with Bob in that area, and he's much closer to planting his 4th city. I'll keep a scout over there to see what's going on (he saw a hill giant for a brief moment, i wonder what happened to the Azer though)

P.S. Also, do you want to ask the moderators to edit the thread title to put your name in it? It does help the lurkers as well.

Thanks for the hint. I'll do that.

[Maksim]

I've played a lot of single player FFH games and some real-time multiplayer

Cool. Out of interest, what difficulty do you play at, normally? And do you play Hippus a lot?

I only wish I knew how close to Feudalism he is, ie. if he's discovered Writing/HR or Sailing/Trade already. Any ideas how to figure this out? (I take screenshots of demographics and score every turn).

You are a bit hampered by the fact that you came into the game mid-way. Ideally, you would have a backlog of turns to rely on - so you can monitor score increases, GNP increases, event log and all that jazz. Maybe you can ask for them from whoever plays before you?

Right now, you can do:

1) Make contact with everyone - that gives you everybody' GNP history, which helps estimate how much tech they have amassed in total

2) See what diplomatic options are available - open borders, map trading, tech trading, gold trading. This gives you an idea of what techs people have

3) If you happen to have sight into others' cities, you could potentially identify buildings in it

4) Events - great people born, world spells cast, civics adopted (especially this one!), wonders built.

The other option is diplomacy - these aren't AI's, they are people. Talking to them might earn you an ally down the road, and they may be willing to share some of their world knowledge as a gesture of a good-will.

So yeah, give diplomacy a go - and post your conversations here! At the very least, it will give us lurkers something entertaining to read!

[Iskender]

Cool. Out of interest, what difficulty do you play at, normally? And do you play Hippus a lot?

Usually at Deity. FFH is definitely much more abusive than Civ. As someone noted, once you survive an initial rush in FFH, you've pretty much won the game. I rarely play Hippus, but as far as military is concerned I have a marked propensity for mounted units.

3) If you happen to have sight into others' cities, you could potentially identify buildings in it

That's what I love hawks for. I'm going to get Hunting ASAP (maybe even before AH and HR)

4) Events - great people born, world spells cast, civics adopted (especially this one!), wonders built.

That reminds me Selrahc has switched to city states, which is a huge tell and, I believe, a terrible mistake. I'll elaborate on that another time, possibly with more information available.

So yeah, give diplomacy a go - and post your conversations here! At the very least, it will give us lurkers something entertaining to read!

There will surely be a lot of diplomacy between me and Bob, but for this I need to prepare my hooved arguments.

I'll try to keep you posted if anything interesting happens in diplomacy. So far I've declared my willingnes to convert to FoL on Sareln's hands if he happens to found it.

Relations with Illians are neutral, with Calabim somewhat spoiled by the Azer issue (btw. I'm sending a scout over there for a chance to pop it again), no contact with Kuriotates and no diplo with Khazad.

[TheBagelProblem]

HI, Iskender

That reminds me Selrahc has switched to city states, which is a huge tell and, I believe, a terrible mistake. I'll elaborate on that another time, possibly with more information available.

Could you explain it a bit?

BTW, keep up the good work.

[Iskender]

City States might mean that he's going to run cottage economy, which in a game with two Raiders civs and two civs with extra fast horses seems suicidal.

However, I'm not so sure he's decided for CE. He hasn't adopted apprenticeship and his commerce output is low. Actually, these civics are a big puzzle for me. Pacifism, no agrarianism. Waging two wars with +45% war weariness. I'm not sure what to think of that.

I am certain though that Erebus is going to see the Stooges pretty soon. Together with the three priests they'd surely make a nice self-sufficient civ destroying stack. They'd need mobility 1 though to acutally get somewhere.

[Iskender]

Turn 92 was an interesting one. The scout on the way to Bob's dungeon found the Azer sitting on a forest. In an attempt to get to get out of Azer's field of view he stumbled upon another fort filled with goblins.



Which is great news actually. Unlike the other fort this one has no tile defense, making it a perfect training grounds for horsemen (a quick test showed that a combat 2 horseman has 67% odds to win against a fully fortified goblin archer). If the scout survives he's going to pop the dungeon, hopefully releasing something nasty (I really don't want to sneak past the Azer with a Great Prophet).

Another scout in the south visited a hut. The villagers were kind enough to share the secrets of a new technology (yay!) of Fishing (doh). Maybe it'll at least confuse score-counters out there.



And a close-up on the happy Hippus lands:



Workers north of the capital will start to build a cottage next turn. The 3rd worker will build a mine and move south to hook up the wine.

From this perspective it's also obvious how puny my military is. I'm delaying any training until Apprenticeship, but getting additional warriors may be necessary.

There has been some diplo! I was asked by the Illians for an unbiased advice on what to do with the Khazad for sheltering the elven escapees. Not a major contribution on my side, but I'm at least glad to see that Selrahc expresses no imperialistic tendencies towards Hippus lands.

On a different note, I've been reading RB Pitboss 2 threads. Specifically, Speaker and Sulla, regoarrarr/sunrise089/darrelljs and the lurkers' thread. It's a great read, I'm picking up a lot. Any suggestions which other threads should I also follow to get most of the action (I read it simultaneously and chronologically, Turn 1 just started)

[Adlain]

All must read Whosits (Shaka of Rome) thread - its just down right Brilliant (he was descriped as being a methed up Hippo at one stage iirc)

[SevenSpirits]

I think you'll enjoy it more just reading those two threads and then going back and reading other threads after. There's something to be said for having a limited perspective.

[Iskender]

Finally met Pocketbeetle, or rather his motley crew of drunk Ratmen rowing aimlessly on 'Conception':

While out on routine patrol yesterday with your men, you crest a hill and catch glimpse of something...unusual.

A boat is weaving its way unsteadily along the coast, onboard a party is clearly in full swing.
Swarming over the deck and hanging from the mast, its crew of Ratmen all seem to be in various stages of intoxication.

Seeing your party, some of them start waving and calling, several of them pointing to a large Ratman at the helm.
With an air of command and a large black hat positioned rakishly askew, this one would appear to be the leader.
And he's looking directly at you, holding something up in his paw.

Fishing out a pair of binoculars, you focus in on the object in his paw. But...there's nothing there.
Only its paw and one digit held upright.
Its middle digit.
The damn thing is giving you the bird!

The Ratman realises you've seen and starts laughing evilly.
Reaching aside, he picks up something clear from the deck and heaves it into the water towards the coast.
Minutes later the boat passes passes behind an outcropping and becomes lost from view.

Ordering your men to follow, you make your way down to the rocky beach and organise search parties.
Your second in command finds it: a midsize green bottle, corked but empty of its original contents.
All that remains in there now is a piece of paper.
On it is written:

"Hi Iskender =)"

I wish I could write back in-character, but with my English i'd probably make a fool of myself, so I'll stick to simple messages.

We had a chat that revealed some things and confirmed others. Much of it revolved around the Calabim:

pocketbeetle: Other than that, I'm just toddling along, frantically trying to remain on Selrahc's good side while he stomps over everyone with his Priests

And busy worrying about the Vampires to your East

You know Bob is in Agristocracy already?

ja: i was really surprised seeing you completing the Pact

pocketbeetle: Defense

ja: he is since turn 84
18:18
pocketbeetle: Needed some military units, seemed like the best option

ja: very good

i was afraid selrahc could build the giants and join them with priests
18:19
pocketbeetle: That would have been bad

could remove cultural defense then

ja: i believe bob's working on getting academy right now

firmly on the way to feudalism

pocketbeetle: I saw he researched a tech the other turn. Think it's either Writing or BW

ja: there's been some bad blood between us, mainly due to the mentioned azer
18:20
pocketbeetle: Why would he want Feudalism? Royal Guards?

ja: vampires!

pocketbeetle: oh crap

forgot

ja: do you track approval rate? someone, i believe him, was at 44%-45% for several turns

pocketbeetle: Being dumb. Thought he'd go for Fanaticism to get Losha Valas. But yes you're right
18:21
Not sure, but I think that was Cull. He was having a hard time with Selrahc

Either way though, I'm glad you're at least not on Bob's side.
I'm worried about him.
18:22
Dist maintenance is high on this map, Aristocracy -40% maintenance plus courthouses (his Gov mansions), not good.

ja: and they give a hidden production bonus

pocketbeetle: exactly yup

ja: it's awful

pocketbeetle: lol

ja: luckily, no elder councils. he'd have had academy by now

and this:

pocketbeetle: You were telling me about thi yes

So you popped an Azer?

ja: we seem to be expanding towards each other

pocketbeetle: From a lair?

ja: from a dungeon. amazingly, it's still there

i mean the dungeon
18:27
but the azer is there as well, i think

pocketbeetle: Was it close to Bob?

ja: 2 tiles away from the border

pocketbeetle: Any idea which city?
18:28
ja: it looks like the most recent one, only 1st cultural ring

pocketbeetle: Interesting. And the Azer hasn't tried to raze it?

Damn useless barbs!

Go pop it again! =D
18:29
ja: he ate my warrior so i lost vision over there. a scout 4-5 turns later saw the azer on a forested tile nearby

pocketbeetle: Unlucky. Assume it woul dhave promoted thought

ja: had combat 1

pocketbeetle: So relations are not going well then? I still don't have contact with Bob officially
18:30
ja: and then the scout was lost to the azer as well

not well, which surprises me

pocketbeetle:
ja: not that i'm such a nice guy, but

pocketbeetle: Well, if I tell you something, will you keep it to yourself?

ja: sure

pocketbeetle: Selrahc has a NAP with Bob

Cull is badly hurt

ja: not that i'm such a nice guy, but he should secure NAPs until feudalism and then unleash hell
18:32
pocketbeetle: Sareln is at worst a friend of Bob's

And I'm miles away from Bob

So it seems we might have common enemy. One thing bothers me though. PB claims to have no contact with Bob, however the diplo screen says otherwise.

I'm not sure what to think of that. PB is a nice guy, i wouldn't suspect him of playing any tricks on me. I'll be wary though.

Oh, and I've 'given' PB Guild of the Nine:

ja: do you plan on getting the Guild of the Nine?
18:39
pocketbeetle: I do have thoughts about it yes. Need some way of producing more units per turn than just 3/4

I didn't think about that, but I guess you really want it also for mounted mercenaries
18:40
ja: they are nice, but quite expensive

180gc for a strength 5 unit, that's about 3:1 gc to hammer ratio

if we assume such unit would cost 60 hammers
18:41
i guess HA would be better

and i don't want to race to the Guild

pocketbeetle: That's about right. It's also why I've emphasised GNP a bit also. Can turn coin into hammers
18:42
Well, this is only the first time we've chatted. I have no intentions of beelining Currency straight away, and I'm sure we can work soemthing out later on

ja: then again you're limited by the # of cities. i can spam scouts and upgrade them for a sligtly better gc ratio

pocketbeetle: Exactly. Drafting melee units isn't so appealing
18:43
ja: i can assure you already officially etc. that i'm conceding building the Guild

pocketbeetle: Really? Okay, well I appreciate that. If I land it, I hope I can make it up to you in some other way

No tricks on my part. Turning 3 coins into one hammer is not the best deal out there. I'd rather upgrade scouts to horse archers for nearly 2gc to 1 hammer.

There was one topic that I didn't bring up. Why does he have only three cities? The map is large, so it should be possible for him to build four. This might be a big mistake or simply lack of free land.

Going back to the sprawling Hippus empire. The capital is working two river cottages. Two more will be constructed in 5-6 turns. Rest of the commerce in the capital will come from agristocracy farms and specialists.



Another settler will be ready in 5 turns (with double chopping). I'm going to settle the City D spot, yellow dot in the picture below:



The order of settling is: Blue, Pink, Yellow and Green (EDIT: I got the colours wrong! It should read: Yellow, Pink, White and Green) . I don't need to settle near the Gems for the happy bonus - capital's borders will expand in a dozen turns and grab the gems.

I usually leave lairs, barrows and the assorted kinds of spawning grounds unexplored. I believe the experience from spawned creatures is worth more than the potential exploration results. This time I'll make an an exception - the yellow spot is just too good for an uber-production city. There's an expedition going that way (shock combat warrior, warrior and scout) to secure the way for the settler and to pop the barrow. I hope that Bob is discouraged enough by the desert, the giant and the azer to avoid settling that area.