Posts: 8,022
Threads: 37
Joined: Jan 2006
Yeah, uh, that's not good. I'd definitely get talking to Rowain and TT if you get the sense Bigger is biting at the apple. But yeah, not good.
Posts: 15,430
Threads: 114
Joined: Apr 2007
Ok, I'm either getting badly lied to or things are looking up. I'm leaning towards the latter as I detect no insincerity. So you didn't miss it, last night Gaspar replied to Germany with a quick note:
Gaspar Wrote:FWIW, and obviously easy for me to say, but I generally think its better for both F & G if Mattimeo doesn't get too strong before we're done with England and I think it might be worth propping up Rowain to ensure that.
-Gaspar ie peanut gallery
Then after I got that message from Molach, I thought it over for awhile and then sent this:
scooter Wrote:Thanks for the chat this morning Waterbat. And I agree with what Gaspar chimed in on - that's pretty much how I feel which is where my comments came from.
Anyways, I'll mention the topic we've been dancing around. I know Molach basically offered to vassalize to you guys in return for stabbing me. You guys aren't going to ditch on me right? I don't ask in presumption that you guys are doing that, but it seemed prudent to check. Stabbing me would force me into a relationship with Russia, which I've been trying to avoid thus far. FR vs EG is basically code for "Turkey wins"... So I'd like to avoid that. You guys still with me? And/or do you have any concerns?
Again, no offense intended by the email, just doing my due diligence  . Paranoia is useful in this game.
-scooter
Then I just got this from Bigger:
Bigger Wrote:Gaspar - we're on the same page. I'm not willing to give a build this year to prop him up, as he requested - but I did work with Rowain enough that I could take my build from England and not him.
scooter - I don't know how many more years Rowain can hold out. Which is fine, but I'd much rather eliminate a country in our sphere before that happens. I don't think you're going anywhere anytime soon, and you've been straightforward and careful not to make any moves that could be a threat to me, which I appreciate. Let's occupy the British isles before we let paranoia sink .
Of course Molach is singing at us - he doesn't a choice, really, other than to give up (and Im sure Turkey and Austria appreciate him not doing that). Unfortunately the best argument he has made for me helping him is that it would be interesting for the lurkers, haha. I really can't see how it would be in my interest at all to switch sides, so don't worry.
Sorry about not being available for diplomacy yesterday, I know that can increase paranoia. I was out of action most of the day, but thankfully waterbat stepped up. we communicate enough that I'm fine with him speaking for me, if you ever find him online but can't get ahold of me.
I replied:
scooter Wrote:Sounds like we're on the same page - I'm glad. And again, sorry for excessive paranoia, I just wanted to cover all my bases so to speak. I can plan on supporting Ska-Nth with ENG if you guys still think that's useful. Glad you worked out a deal with Russia to kick England out of Nwy - that to me is easily the most important thing we can accomplish on this turn.
No problem on being out yesterday - there's 48 hours so I wasn't in a rush.
Good stuff. I tend to feel this is sincere, though I'll still be cautious. I also sent this to Molach out of lack of anything else to say:
scooter Wrote:Well that was surprisingly honest. Credit for that. I guess there's not much I can say to you except good luck? I'd probably play things pretty similar to how you have in that situation, so I don't blame you. You got dropped into a weird spot where your predecessor was silent and thus a bit isolated. Anyways, you know how to contact me if things ever change. I can't promise I'd be jumping to accept something, but I'll always listen and consider.
-scooter
Figured I'd repay blunt honesty with blunt honesty.
Posts: 8,022
Threads: 37
Joined: Jan 2006
I mean, I don't know that Bigger is being honest - I'm sure England's offer is very tempting. The problem is, you're not really in a great position for Germany to stab right now. If he's going to stab, makes a lot more sense to do it at some later point when you're more exposed. Doing it right now just trades a strong French ally for a strong English one and as stated many times before, a lot more a pain to invade England than France. Given that, I'd expect him to hold course for now. Later on, might be different, but I'd be very surprised by a full-on stab right now.
Posts: 15,430
Threads: 114
Joined: Apr 2007
Gaspar Wrote:I mean, I don't know that Bigger is being honest - I'm sure England's offer is very tempting. The problem is, you're not really in a great position for Germany to stab right now. If he's going to stab, makes a lot more sense to do it at some later point when you're more exposed. Doing it right now just trades a strong French ally for a strong English one and as stated many times before, a lot more a pain to invade England than France. Given that, I'd expect him to hold course for now. Later on, might be different, but I'd be very surprised by a full-on stab right now.
Yeah you're right. He's not in a position to stab right now at all - I am going to get +1 build this year and there's literally no way to stop that (Pic supporting Bel guarantees that), so exposing a stab now is silly. Anyways, i'll just have to continue to keep a buffer between myself and him and make myself a difficult (and thus not worthy) stab.
Kinda hoping Rowain flips Turkey in the east. I nagged Mattimeo briefly on chat but he implied that no such thing is happening... But a stronger Russia would make Bigger stabbing me be foolish, but a collapsing Russia makes it a more realistic option.
Posts: 15,430
Threads: 114
Joined: Apr 2007
Pretty candid discussion with Molach continues:
Molach Wrote:Thanks for that.
Perhaps if it had been someone else as France I might have tried something, but contacting both of you would wreck my case if one of you told the other, so I had to choose. And after Bigger failed to turn and proved his loyalty it is even less likely you would turn on him.
I was actually starting to believe my own case, and would have been very tempted were I Bigger, hence the "hope you backstab him" line. That'll teach him to backstab when an opprtunity arises, heh.
-M
Again responded in kind:
scooter Wrote:I honestly don't see how him stabbing me really works. Nothing he can do right now anyways. Hard to see how he could do it without me seeing it a mile away and bringing Russia in to counter it (and really, at 6 centers I could fend off EG by myself for quite awhile). FR vs EG == Turkey win, and the one thing the three of us can all agree on is we don't want that. At any rate, not sure what options that leaves you with this year as he cannot damage me this turn, but he can give himself away if he DOES flip.
We shall see. This is certainly more interesting than when Tasunke was going all Tokugawa on us.
This may be a pointless or dead-end conversation, but it's not completely impossible for it to be useful.
Posts: 8,022
Threads: 37
Joined: Jan 2006
Really wish someone would stop Turkey.
Posts: 15,430
Threads: 114
Joined: Apr 2007
Gaspar Wrote:Really wish someone would stop Turkey.
No kidding. I'll put in some effort to cook up a 3v1, but he's the clear leader right now and is a serious solo threat if things continue at this pace.
Posts: 15,430
Threads: 114
Joined: Apr 2007
Ahhhh. Apparently Rowain convinced Mattimeo to switch sides, and the price of switching sides was for Turkey to take Sev from Russia.
I don't think he intended to admit to this actually. I think he slipped. I'll post or summarize the chat later.
Posts: 8,022
Threads: 37
Joined: Jan 2006
Juggernaut or no, I actually prefer RT to badass Turkey. Rowain is a pragmatist so he won't be shy about a stab if needed so if nothing else heavily reduces the possibility of a Turkey solo win.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
Posts: 15,430
Threads: 114
Joined: Apr 2007
Yeah, I chatted with Rowain a bit more and I get what he's aiming to accomplish. I don't think he actually "slipped"... Basically, he likes a scenario where we simultaneously stab Turkey/Germany and aim to be the final two standing. And he qualified that with "England and Austria need to die first for that though, right?" So that's his gameplan.
It's something to think about. Obviously it doesn't matter if Mattimeo stays a step ahead of him and/or if Bigger pounces sooner than Rowain is ready, but it's something to keep in mind for several years down the road. Keep our options open anyway.
|
