[SPOILERS] The Kaiser Strikes back! A Bigger Germany is better

[Bigger]

ok, thanks for pointing that out Mardoc.

[waterbat]

quick chat with Bigger

He lost the chats for scooter and Tasunke (contact!)

me: hello
anything going on in the diplo front?
bigger: hey
damn I hit refresh and it erased my convo
w/ scooter and tasunke, heh
well tasunke and I actually chatted, but he had to go before we could get into any meat... but it seems like he's going to leave the north sea open, which is good
me: hey - i had a thought
bigger: k
me: why not just agree to give Rowain SWE in exchange for 1 turn of support in S1902 against norway
assuming we get into NTH, we do A CONVOY DEN -> NOR
F CONVOY
and he does F S DEN -> NOR
he = rowain
bigger: thats not a bad idea, he doesnt seem to like the idea of not building in STP
although I may need the fleet to invade england
maybe not
me: oh - you were going to convoy right to england and let NOR isolated?
bigger: depends on tasunke's moves I guess, not even sure a convoy is a given
me: what happens if we try to convoy with NTH and he does NOR -> NTH ?
bigger: the ships bounce and the convoy fails
me: does it break the convoy, or does he need support to break it?
bigger: rather, my ship stays in nth, his in norway, and the convoy breaks
im not positive but i think it breaks the convoy, would need a second ship to support it
me: wow
bigger: but that could be wrong, thats a good question to ask mardoc
me: so if i was him, i'd definitely do that
Sent at 4:37 PM on Friday
me: http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewt...13&t=24961
states that dislodging the fleet disrupts the convoy, but not just attacking
bigger: oh ok
but he will prob build a fleet in london
so still possible
probably will have to take a stab edi to get from getting pushed out
(w/ navy, not convoy)
Sent at 4:40 PM on Friday
me: yep
so what about the chat with Tasunke? we didnt commit to helping him, right?
sounds like you discussed some moves
Sent at 4:44 PM on Friday
me: if he does want to regain NTH, he'd probably move LON -> NTH and suipport with NOR , not the other way arround
(in S1902)
Sent at 4:45 PM on Friday
bigger: yes
but still blocks the convoy

<WW TALK SNIP>

me: you're right though - injera was a dead duck it seemed
anyway - anything we need to do for diplo?
bigger: I don't think so
me: want me to try to reach rowain? deadline in 3 hours
bigger: I've already submitted moves, I don't think I'll be changing
me: 3.5 or so
bigger: yeah, sure, you can send him a note, cc me "if you're not up for keeping stp empty, how about an "i owe you" support in Norway, if needed... or phrase it better than that
me: ok sounds good
ttyl

[waterbat]

message to Rowain:

I hesistated even putting in the support for NOR in this message. In a back-and-forth session, I'd bring up the current offer only. If he refuses, then go with the NOR thing. Unfortunately, he wasnt online, and we aren't guarenteed that type of back and forth. So... i put the bit about NOR in there. That means he will most certainly refuse the no build clause and go for the support. If he refuses both - well, then we know he's non-cooperative

Rowain - Greetings from Germany!

The chancellor has taken an interest in werewolf folklore and is devouring strange reading materials called "lurker threads" and "quick topics". He asked me to reach out.

As the Autumn approaches, we would like to coordinate some tactical maneuvers with you. As the chancellor has stated before - while we welcome a Russian presence in SWE, we were hoping that this move would be accompanied by no build in STP. We do understand if you must do so for the security of the Russian homeland. For their own security, a few countries have prompted us to counter your move to SWE and would like to respond in the negative if we can.

Can you commit to no build in STP this upcoming winter?

If not - can we talk about Russian support for a German offensive into NOR in S1902 or F1902 (if we require it)?

Yours sincerely,
Waterbat, co-champion of the 13th annual Wiemar Wurst-eating contest

[waterbat]

Ugh! really not happy with how that went. I thought you identified Tasunke would stay out of NTH?

Everyone else on that turn got what they wanted except for us due to the backup.

Also I have no idea what our closest? ally Tatan was trying that turn. Did Rowain promise him he wouldnt move on RUM? Obviously, that support was going to be broken.

Breakdown:

ENGLAND: moved the army to YOR. Once he seizes the north sea with the 2 fleets, its going to be able to convoy via NTH in F1902. That is bad for us as he can work with FRANCE to push us out of Holland or Russia to push us out of DEN. Hopefully he just wants to put it on NOR, but we need to be wary!

FRANCE: no surprises. in your chat with him - did he also say england was going to take ENG?

ITALY: expected moves.

RUSSIA: expected moves. Interestingly enough - i think the moves indicate that he is not working with Turkey (as you also expected). If he was, he would have wanted Turkey to take SER, destroying a unit. Also, i think he would have supported the A UKR to move into RUM. that way, the 3 armies in the balkans can punish Austria. In fact Austria would be down to 2 centers in F1902 and even if he supported BUD with VIE, it would still fall and also leave open GAL. If Russia got GAL, Austria would have 1 center by the end of the year and would not be able to hold it in spring. We need to consider moving our new Army to BOH and trying to prop up Austria.

TURKEY: did pull the F BLA -> CON move. could have easily taken the black sea that turn. I dont get it. I think good news though - if turkey had been working with Russia, i think he would have moved to SER. No reason I can think of not to other than to delay it.

AUSTRIA: It doesnt look like AUSTRIA is working with anybody. Russia and turkey are arrayed against him. if he trusted Italy, he'd be doing something different. I.E. why not move the fleet in TRI to ALB? He could help TT assault GRE. ALso he could cut support from GRE against his own SER. in fact, why not do this for his own well being?

OVERALL: without securing russian support in the sealion, we've let england develop. While we have secured our austria border, they may not be alive long as a buffer.

The build phase will be interesting. I think Rowain might build F STP(nc) and make a play for NOR on his own. I threw a bunch of builds on a map. I didnt put too much thought into them, but here they are. THis is what our world could look like:





Also received nothing from Rowain - in time for the deadline at least.

[waterbat]

Received this from scooter:

I thought Tasunke was going to take the channel? That's kind of a bummer - was hoping we'd have Nth control. Any idea what went wrong there? I thought Tasunke was liking you more than me.*

Anyways, not a huge problem, just a minor annoyance. ENG is mine in the spring, and I can easily support you into Nth in the fall.*

What are your guys thoughts on Russian builds? At first thought it'd be nice to discourage him from building in the north and potentially threatening us, but it also may be nice for him to threaten Norway and then we can get it back for you pretty easily. What's your idea on what's preferable? Once we figure that out, it's easier for me to know how to handle Rowain.*

[waterbat]

And this earlier that that from Rowain:

Hello Berlin
*
I agreed to*not build in STP this winter if I get SWE and I will stay to it.
*
Just take care that not you do the work and France gets the*british centers.
*
Greetings from Moskau
*
Csar Rowain
*
PS: After that many Wuerstchen you sure need some of our Wodka

[Bigger]

nice response, he didn't reply to me, just you, lol.

as for tatan - his only other option was to hold in RUm, why not support and see what happens?

[waterbat]

his option was to move to SER, bounce, and then retreat SER. getting the same position he has now with much less risk.

[waterbat]

me: hello sir
bigger: hey
weird that Rowain responded to just you, lol. but thanks for posting the response in the thread
well tasunke bounced me was hoping he'd move to ENG
me: yeah
not getting the build in KIE really slows us down
i think rowain just forgot to reply-all
and just replied
no biggie
bigger: ah
probably yer right
well, lets see if he follows through and leaves STP empty
I guess I'll have to build a NAV in berlin
me: i dont doubt he will
bigger: yeah
me: yep -build f berlin
and A Mun
seems straight-forward there
bigger: yeah
so I guess fie KIE moves to SKA, F BER into DEN, then i'll be in position in the fall
Sent at 4:08 PM on Saturday
me: i expect him to build F EDI
bigger: yeah he has to w/ longon blocked
me: and then do F S NOR EDI-NTH
bigger: london
me: and F EDI->NTH
bigger: right
well scooter will be able to support himself into the channel in the spring, so he can support me in the fall
with a fleet in SKA we can double support if needed, in case he still has the fleet in norway
Sent at 4:10 PM on Saturday
me: he probably also moves F LON -> ENG
and A YOR -> LON
not that those will succeed, but if he got them all setup like that, he'd have a lot of options in the fall
bigger: yah
Sent at 4:14 PM on Saturday
me: seems like a silly question - but what happens if you leave a neutral center in the fall
does it still remain under your influence? (count for building units)
Sent at 4:16 PM on Saturday
me: i.e. France moves A POR -> SPA in F1902, leaving POR uncovered
does POR count as one of his centers?
Sent at 4:17 PM on Saturday
me: oh
bigger - we can't move F BER -> DEN
and be ready by fall
Sent at 4:20 PM on Saturday
me: *****
maybe... we can do:
F DEN -> SKA
F BER -> BAL
and then do a deal with Rowain
he does F NOR -> SWE
we do F S SKA NOR-SWE
and F CONVOY KIE -> SWE
and A KIE->BAL->SWE
he takes norway, we take sweden and we can switch back in 1903
Sent at 4:23 PM on Saturday
bigger: hmm
me: we cant get NTH in the fall that i can see even with scoot's help
bigger: why not?
move den to nth, support from SKA and scooter supports from ENG
me: F ber -> den isnt legal
bigger: anyway I hafta go, we'll talk tom?
oh yeah you're right, doh
me: k
me: tty tom - have a good one

on the deal with rowain: we cant just switch back directly in 1903 - he'll have to move nor -> fin -> swe or us move swe -> fin -> nor

this looks to be better than doing nothing if we cant break into NTH this year

[waterbat]

duh he has a fleet, not an army - so well have to be the ones to transit FIN