We need to consider several locations. Everything depends on cooper placement. Unlikely we can leave it for 3rd city since in our opening it comes out later than in those we have tried out with agri+hunting or agri+mining starts.
Imo you're underrating the sheep city. It doesn't require much attention from workers other than those it can produce by itself (although I'd aim to chop its barracks); thereby the capital can grow to size4 on a work boat, while passing the wheat to city 2 just as we finish improving the capital's sheep. That makes the most of our best tiles, and it frees up the capital and workers to prepare for settling the pig site, which starts slower due to no overlap, but has a higher ceiling, so delaying it until our workforce increases and we have both Hunting/Wheel seems useful.
A bit later, once the sheep city has a lighthouse and one luxury (AH ivory), it can put out 16 hpt stagnating at three plains mines + crab + sheep, giving back the wheat. That's exactly two praets in 5t (if I remember the cost correctly as 40h), or a 3t worker. It might even be viable to skip a granary at that city, and it can support a push for the deer. Not that the deer is very strong, but I'd say it's likely in a borderland, at least adjacent to our western neighbour's second ring of cities.
But I agree that it's a possible setback on land-grabbing, and that settling for pigs second is an alternative we have to look into. Also agree on copper being extremely important both for early hammers and defense; hopefully it's at the capital but if not, we have to settle for it. Though technically we can immediately put two chops into the city #3 settler to get it by T35, but that's probably a mess with inadequate workforce.
e: T9 came in. RFS has teched Agri, Charriu Hunting (I'd guess).
That city is ok. I mean it can happen that good land is between players at the same distance and we need to appear there ASAP to claim it. I dont think it is a problem if we are late there though since we are Rome.
Anyway so far even pig site is not attractive. I would like to know whats around of gold.
Making 2 first city as production centers may be without granaries seems fine too.
In this plan, Rome can finish a granary (I still think that's a good idea, since the ivory will allow us to whip freely and the wheat-sharing is much improved) avoiding growth just as Antium, which whipped barracks first, connects the sheep and will hook up its seafood within 4t, while we have a small local surplus of worker labour for chops and mines. Not sure whether Rome should single-whip the granary (plains mine off) on T46 for 25h overflow into a 7t settler (size3; less if the worker 3 of capital chops the last forest instead, but would probably be out of position then), or whether we should grow to size4 and add another mine (plains or grass up for debate) -- or start cottaging. That'll also depend on how urgent the land grab will be. Cumae just improves pig, then ivory, whipping another worker at size2, then adds mines. The cities look a bit marginal right now, but Antium will grow onto its mines fast and can pass back the wheat to the capital as needed. Cumae won't be much worse.
Presence of copper / horses and especially neighbours will change the plan, but for now I like it. Slavery revolt would be on T31, just after the second worker has come out, and 1t before founding Antium.
I'll swing the scout by the gold once he changes direction again and goes for the second-ring semicircle, which will occur in 1-3t depending on what the hill reveals.
Regarding Rome's fate from the fork above, I think that with this generally food-poor start, EXP workers and AGG praets, growing the core to size5-6 can work out better than "must have 4 cities at T50". So grow to size4 and use the granary to emulate wheat, as well as cushion settler/worker 1-whips while growing onto mines at both Rome and Antium. Though pushing for gold looks appealing as well -- could well become city #4 once Cumae can support it.
Plains Deer. The new fragrance. By Giorgio Commodori.
The terrain couldn't be much less convenient. If we veer off north (floodplains, coast bleeding), we'll have to move back onto this same hill afterwards or risk meeting a panther (which hasn't moved) on flatland. What I want is to scout through the forest/jungle area south of here, back to the desert gold, but it's not likely that we'll visit this area for a while. Move 9 or 33? I'm also amused that it's impossible to get both the plains deer and cow at the same city.
The granary at Antium is going to be replaced by two metal units in the actual game, and the barracks at Cumae (which isn't useful at low sizes) will likely be another, or hopefully a worker if we can get away with that. I stand by the granary at Rome, though, particularly if our fourth settler goes towards the gold (which ties into why our workforce is concentrated a Cumae) -- we'd want to grow to size7 from there. Micro can most likely be improved.
Next builds would be worker #5 (then settler) at Rome, axe/spear or worker at Antium (ideally our sole military pump, sending units to the centre of the core triangle), and probably another worker at Cumae. That mine at Cumae could also be a fp farm or cottage, but who cares right now
Daring gambit: produce settler #5 at Antium instead, near-concurrently with #4, and settle on the tile where the scout is standing right now. Needs to divert one worker that headed to Cumae in the above variant to the capital, but that's not much trouble. Stretching our defenses would be, though.
Nothing new, but here is the micro for review. Could grow 1t sooner by working sugar instead of wheat on any turn between 11 and 14 inclusive, then wheat/sugar from T17 to T19 for a 1/26 food box on the beginning of T21 (which is still when we hit size3). But the trade-off is hammers on the work boat, which then manifests as being short on hammers for the warrior. So this alternative only works if we send out the (T28) settler before the warrior. Besides, the value of the 1f is dubious since we're not going to grow to size4 all that soon, and likely not (solely) on a 5f surplus, but by using the sheep pasture and 1-2t of taking the wheat from "Antium". T32 settles city #2.
Moved scout 9 and immediately regretted it; found nothing. I won't even bother scouting the coast, it would need two seafood to pay off. Will move 1-33 next and hope that there's greener grass on the other side of that jungle, I suppose.
Think we really want early Maths, Currency, IW, Calendar (roughly in that order, but can pull IW before Curr depending), can delay Sailing since lighthouses are going to be no better than barays for us and the land tile count suggests few islands if any. Also it looks like coast is bleeding through the jungle's south. If this map has everyone on separate continents, I'm going to press Retire and start a game of single-player Deity Duel Always War Tiny Islands Archipelago.
e: re the above post, it makes no sense to finish a granary just ahead of a worker and settler either. Would probably build a unit while growing to size5 or size6, then start the worker and settler.
I hope I can find some time to make tests this weekend. Can you please update sim?
In general I dont think we are on island, but early aggression and conquest looks complicated here. The map is not very rich so even if we capture some extra land we will fall into deep economic hole. So we need to rise stable gnp by our own before looking for conquest. So focus on Maths, Currency and Calendar seems to be reasonable.
I also want to know how much cottages we can improve by T60. It is important for early city placement too.. Initially I thought about leaving riversides for watermills, but not sure if we can afford it. In theory it is great but I never got chance to try it out.
We can likely work up to 4 cottages (one floodplain at Cumae, three at Rome alongside clams+sheep) by T60 without sacrificing food, especially if we eschew building one of the mines at the capital. There should also be a way to provide Antium with a cottage south of the wheat (while not sacrificing the plains mine), which would get passed back to Rome later. This would emphasize cottages over production, but early Maths with EXP workers can make a strong comeback in hammers on this map, which of all things isn't lacking in forests.
Save attached, updated with BFCs for the likely next two cities. If you want me to edit in more territory, just ask.
My first run T54 screen:
Rome -> Granary (not sure we really need this
Antium - > Barracks
Cumae - > Granary, Barracks
In your screen you improve too much tiles around the capital.
I was mainly testing growing to 4 before settler. It delays settler by 2 turns but gives better outcome in general imho. We can whip that extra citizen into worker immediately or let it just be and boost our further development. The problem I see is connection between #2 and our cap, it gives 2 commerce but demands to road 2 tiles.
![[Image: XsuXyW1.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/XsuXyW1.jpg)