Mr. Cairo PB 49 [Spoilers]

[Mr. Cairo]

And that was some not so good results. I won some low odds battles. But lost more good odds battles and lost too many battles flawlessly. I also launched a few attacks that I shouldn't have, including one with my Medic HA (which lost at ~80% odds). I have no idea how well he'll be able to attack back, but it's entirely possibly I could lose everything.

I probably attacked in the wrong order, and I probably should have waited a turn to heal. His Axes didn't attack out last turn so it wouldn't have made any difference, only his WE and HA that survived attacking out might have promoted.



I have nothing left to lose, so I'm going to whip my civ into the ground to kill Miguelito now. Let's have our vendetta in the corner while the big boys fight it out.

edit: I'd like to point out that I probably would have won that battle, or even this war before this battle, if not for the random event quest that gave all of Miguelito's Axes Shock.

[Mr. Cairo]

So out of my invasion force of near 40 units, 5 survive. And now FT has declared war of Miguelito so I soon expect him to take his cities and probably keep going to attack me. I'm going to try and at least get the finishing blow on India and attack his cap from the sea. I can land on a hill between it and his other city so he can't reinforce.

This has got to be my worse game on RB yet. All I hope for now is the satisfaction of eliminating India followed by a quick end.

[superdeath]

If the worst game for you on RB yet, involves you not being eliminated yet... You are lucky :P

[Mr. Cairo]

If the worst game for you on RB yet, involves you not being eliminated yet... You are lucky  :P

Well, I don't think I have ever been eliminated. A couple games I was going to be eliminated but then the game ended before it actually happened. I'll have to go back and see though, I can't remember all of them.

[Mr. Cairo]

I'm not even going to be the one to eliminated India. Even if FT decides not to finish Miguelito off, he'll probably come after me next. And Miguelito didn't have the good grace to lose all his units in a futile defense of Mahadeva leaving his cap vulnerable to me

If my plans for mindless revenge against India don't come to fruition, I'll send my fleet to the north and conquer Commodore's island up there.

[Mr. Cairo]

GG Miguelito, that was very well fought.

[Mr. Cairo]

Everyone's at peace, and Commodore is moving units towards my border. Well, that's ok. There's still not sign that FT will just keep going into me after finishing off India, so I should have the time.

[Miguelito]

GG Miguelito, that was very well fought.

GG as well, you can crown yourself as the moral winner. In a duel you'd have won it, long term, no doubt. But FT had to disturb our beautiful little sandbox fight...

Some after game thoughts and questions:

1. Those ocean tiles were brutal, more so as I only realized after your first declaration what they meant. 2 of them being in your capital's third ring I feel there wasn't too much I could do about it. The only option I see is getting triremes out right after the Oracle, and then station them in front of you capital, never making peace again. Not really satisfying. Well I got the axe event to somewhat make up for it. I understand you frutstration with that.
   
2. I think on two early occasions, you had a good path to take me out. First during my Commodore war I was very much stretched, had you walked in on Mahadeva on turn 70 or so, I don't think I could have defended. But of course I don't know how much of a stack you had ready at the time, having to guard against Comm as well. The other instant was when you invaded Nilakantha for the second time. Had you sent those onto the capital, together with the main stack I'm sure you'd have burned one of the two main cities, probably the cap, and could have taken the island later on. I had the first triremes, but I think at the time I still couldn't cover the whole coast, and I think it would have been worth it to lose one or 2 galleys. You had a coast tile where you could send them in from the fog.
   
3. I was very much impressed by your world class MFG while at just 4 cities, was there anything special you did to get there? I couldn't really extract that from the thread. I only had the whip to try and keep up with that remotely.
   
4. I had my gripes with the map, but I assume you also had quite a difficult position. While I still think your starting area was very strong, it was very easy to get boxed in, and Comm and I did that basically with our second cities, not much oyu could do about it. Do you think you could have prioritised the islands more? I was surprised to see the eastern island still unsettled during the 80s, and while I prioritised setlting Nilakantha, I also had the Oracle build going, and you had way more hammers, so maybe you could have beaten me to that? As well as the northern island which I suspect was settled by Commodore only after our war.
   
5. Speaking of, was there ever a chance of us going against Commodore together? I actually felt that even if you took Mahadeva or all of my core, he would effectively seperate both territories for you, splitting you at will, while we could have split the spoils in a joint Comm war at least in the beginning. But of course, from turn 5 on there was a strong point to make that only one of our capitals could survive.
   
6. The ship manoeuvre was a mix of not thinking through things, wishful thinking, and increasingly ceasing to give a damn. I had decided that I could never hold Nilakantha, so me dropping off to bombard there was actually meant to tempt your stack to move into my core, to test if I had sent too much overseas. Then I would burn your capitol, enabling me to a) win the war or b) mor elikely retreat to an exile on the islands, ceding you my core. I didn't really expect you to get (3move) triremes at this point, was rather expecting you to go for Construction. And of course you wouldn't be baited as easily. Then when I had bombarded the city and still knew your HAs would guard the capital, I should have just either retreated home or gone for the eastern island on a safe route. But I guess I just went with the plan, even if it had become senseless. I noticed pretty soon after ending turn that with new triremes from you this was bound for desaster. You sunk precisely the 2 galleys with the catapults, dooming the subsequent island expedition against Ruff's 4 units. The axes on the cow thing was impressively stupid on my part, moreso as I covered every other thing with spears religiously.
   

[Mr. Cairo]

1: Those ocean tiles were brutal, more so as I only realized after your first declaration what they meant. 2 of them being in your capital's third ring I feel there wasn't too much I could do about it. The only option I see is getting triremes out right after the Oracle, and then station them in front of you capital, never making peace again. Not really satisfying. Well I got the axe event to somewhat make up for it. I understand you frutstration with that.

One thing I don't think you ever realized about those Ocean tiles is that they take up 2 mps to go through. So on a few occasions I wasn't nearly as close to your cap as it might have appeared. But overall they were incredibly useful, letting me have a naval presence despite not having Triremes for so long

2: I think on two early occasions, you had a good path to take me out. First during my Commodore war I was very much stretched, had you walked in on Mahadeva on turn 70 or so, I don't think I could have defended. But of course I don't know how much of a stack you had ready at the time, having to guard against Comm as well. The other instant was when you invaded Nilakantha for the second time. Had you sent those onto the capital, together with the main stack I'm sure you'd have burned one of the two main cities, probably the cap, and could have taken the island later on. I had the first triremes, but I think at the time I still couldn't cover the whole coast, and I think it would have been worth it to lose one or 2 galleys. You had a coast tile where you could send them in from the fog.

I can't remember exactly, but I think I simply didn't have the units to attack when Comm did, or at least, not enough to make sure. I knew that a war against you by me and Commodore was coming, but unlike Comm I couldn't magic a bunch of HAs out of thin air, so I wasn't ready when he attacked, since there was no steady build-up of forces on his part.
The second attack, I could have gone after your cap, it might have been a better choice, but then again, I didn't want to burn your cap, I wanted to take it, and hold it. What I really should have done is just taken the island, and saved the units from the land attack. With the island in hand I would have had a much stronger point from which to attack/threaten your capital, and I wouldn't have wasted all those Immortals (which I absolutely shouldn't have built so many of).

3: I was very much impressed by your world class MFG while at just 4 cities, was there anything special you did to get there? I couldn't really extract that from the thread. I only had the whip to try and keep up with that remotely.

I didn't do anything special I don't think. Just grow up to the happy cap and work mines and quarries. I only really started whipping recently, now that my death (probably) approaches.

4: I had my gripes with the map, but I assume you also had quite a difficult position. While I still think your starting area was very strong, it was very easy to get boxed in, and Comm and I did that basically with our second cities, not much oyu could do about it. Do you think you could have prioritised the islands more? I was surprised to see the eastern island still unsettled during the 80s, and while I prioritised setlting Nilakantha, I also had the Oracle build going, and you had way more hammers, so maybe you could have beaten me to that? As well as the northern island which I suspect was settled by Commodore only after our war.

I could have gone for the islands more, in fact, I should have settled the eastern island after capturing your island, but at the time I was too focused on conquering you. However, if I had not bothered to attack you, and just gone for the island early on, I think I would have ended up stretched too thinly, having to defend islands against you, Comm, and Ruff at the same time. Maybe Commodore wouldn't have bothered me on that island, but then again, maybe not. I also didn't realise how good that island was until after Commodore "claimed" it by putting a HA there.

5: Speaking of, was there ever a chance of us going against Commodore together? I actually felt that even if you took Mahadeva or all of my core, he would effectively seperate both territories for you, splitting you at will, while we could have split the spoils in a joint Comm war at least in the beginning. But of course, from turn 5 on there was a strong point to make that only one of our capitals could survive.

No, I don't think so. Not with those free HAs of his. Also, looking at the map, other than that one city Comm took off of you, you didn't really border Comm much, so I don't think there was much of an incentive for you to actually attack him.

6: The ship manoeuvre was a mix of not thinking through things, wishful thinking, and increasingly ceasing to give a damn. I had decided that I could never hold Nilakantha, so me dropping off to bombard there was actually meant to tempt your stack to move into my core, to test if I had sent too much overseas. Then I would burn your capitol, enabling me to a) win the war or b) mor elikely retreat to an exile on the islands, ceding you my core. I didn't really expect you to get (3move) triremes at this point, was rather expecting  you to go for Construction. And of course you wouldn't be baited as easily. Then when I had bombarded the city and still knew your HAs would guard the capital, I should have just either retreated home or gone for the eastern island on a safe route. But I guess I just went with the plan, even if it had become senseless. I noticed pretty soon after ending turn that with new triremes from you this was bound for desaster. You sunk precisely the 2 galleys with the catapults, dooming the subsequent island expedition against Ruff's 4 units. The axes on the cow thing was impressively stupid on my part, moreso as I covered every other thing with spears religiously.

Well, I also don't think you can be blamed for Ruff's behaviour there, I don't even know what exactly happened, and how you lost your units, but him declaring war on you while your units were in his land, teleporting them and the boats elsewhere probably ruined a lot of your plans.


Overall, I think my biggest mistake was not retreating my main stack during the first big invasion. I had successfully taken the island, and had a significant advantage in power over you, but then frittered it away by keeping those units in your land without being able to do anything significant.

[Miguelito]

One thing I don't think you ever realized about those Ocean tiles is that they take up 2 mps to go through. So on a few occasions I wasn't nearly as close to your cap as it might have appeared. But overall they were incredibly useful, letting me have a naval presence despite not having Triremes for so long

You're correct, I didn't, I was first made aware of this when I read it in your thread. But could you not just move ocean->coast->ocean to stay at full speed, unless I cover all the coast tiles? I'll have to sim this some time to better understand. It's something Kirll introduced with the PB46 naval overhaul, right?