[no players] CiVI Lurking Part II: Sophomore Slump

[antisocialmunky]

This is legalization levels of weed, Archduck.

[kjn]

I see oledavy is posting actively. Has he the save? My unfounded prediction is that at first he will post some radical plans about conquering us in the nearest possible future, and then will do nothing of the sort. He really only has himself to be angry at, what he expect us (or another player) to do -- bypass a sizeable immediate gain together with nullifying a bunch of his own cogs at the cost of what, a scout, at worst? Its like sending an unescorted settler, don't expect people to just ignore it, protect your districts, man, you have the units for it.

Nice job of blaming the victim there.

Yes, one can say that the trade should have been protected (just like eg a worker outside your borders). But don't blame Oledavy for this, the decision to go to war for a fleeting gain war wasn't made by him, it was made by Archduke.

Talking of which, what do you think his other units are doing? They weren't around on our borders during your scouting, so maybe he has some barb trouble to the north.

Doing something useful, maybe? Like taking a city-state?

That said, despite the sorry state of Archduke's military, Oledavy's military isn't in that much better shape. Three warriors and four archers is hardly a strong army either, and all of Oledavy's economic and tech advantages have been focused on the economic and tech side. In military tech, Archduke has a slight edge, and also a steeper quality rise in the short-medium term with the great general in 13-15 turns.

It will take time for Oledavy to turn his advantages in tech and economy to a real military advantage.

[Rowain]

I'm with you oledavy, this makes no sense to me.

This is legalization levels of weed, Archduck.

It makes sense as Oledavy can't retaliate in force now. Warriors and Archers aren't going to invade and punish Archduke. Getting a nice chunk of gold while at the same time costing oledavy some hammers and gold was a god move from Archduke. If he manages to plunder the Campus then the expedition was well worth it and Singaboy should send him a big thank you after the game.

Archduke might get punished later down the road but the problem for Oledavy is that going full out war on Archduke will help Singaboy more than him.

[Ituralde]

It might already be helping his other competitor Woden. If Oledavy changes his Petra plan or just delays it enough, Woden will snatch it up.

[Commodore]

It might already be helping his other competitor Woden. If Oledavy changes his Petra plan or just delays it enough, Woden will snatch it up.

Given Woden is talking about slapping down Petra on a single desert tile...wouldn't it be best for him if someone else did build the wonder? Or am I missing something about the usefulness of the thing?

[Rowain]

He prefers to built it without any benefit over letting Russia own it with it's desert.

According to his map here he plans to get Stonehenge, Oracle, Hanging Gardens, Coliseum, Pyramids, Great Lib and Colossus.

[kjn]

Now, did Archduke change the entire RB metagame about diplomacy for AI diplo games here, by asking for a "declaration of friendship" with Singaboy? The "declaration of friendship" some real in-game effects, though I'm not sure how the mechanics will work in MP.

The dance around Seoul will also be interesting. Right now, Oledavy sees it as a buffer between him and Singaboy. As long as Singaboy is south and east of Seoul, he will likely view his eastern border as relatively secure and that relations with Singaboy are at least neutral, even if Singaboy were to drop a few envoys into Seoul (for the science bonus). But with Seoul taken by Singaboy, Oledavy will without a doubt take a more belligerent stance against him.

It will also be interesting to see how Oledavy reacts to the "declared friendship" between Singaboy and Archduke.

[kjn]

So, did Bacchii carefully presented plans go awry as soon as they encountered Archduke?

As far as I can tell, Archduke purchased one builder, upgraded a slinger to archer, and purchased the tea-tile. He might have done one more thing that I missed. Coming to the nice tea-tal of 245g if I get the costs correctly: 30 for the upgrade, maybe 150 for the worker, and likely 65 for the tea-tile.

First, he has cut his budget surplus from +5 to +4, and he plans to upgrade the second slinger as well. He does have the inspiration for State Workforce, but it will still take him 6 or 7 turns to reach it, more if he delays it or drops the coffee. And he can't run Conscription while running Agoge or Maneuver, not unless he drops Strategos. I can't see any reason to upgrade the slingers if he plans to leave them at the home front, as defenders.

Second, leaving the archers (once upgraded) at home is also a bad tactical move. It makes it much harder to shift fortified defenders in strong positions. Massed archer fire proved deadly against anything short of legions in PBEM 1, and the area south and west of Schuyler looks made for it.

Third, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe agoge does not apply to anti-cavalry units. That turns 3*65H/1.5 into 3*65H, or 195H, apart from the cost of the horsemen.

Fourth, logistics. I had thought that Archduke's next city would go to the northwest, but it's far to the west instead. Some very rough terrain to get through before reaching Buenos Aires from there, much less Schuyler.

Fifth, buying the tea-tile means that gold was spent on a tile that can't be chopped.

(If Oledavy is lucky or reads the tempo of operations right, the best time to hit Archduke is just as Archduke has conquered or is about to conquer Buenos Aires. Fresh units can make a very big impact, even if they are outdated. Likewise in the other direction, but I believe Archduke is much less able to manage it.)

Also, regarding Woden and Alhambram: one player's defensive structures is another player's hostile moves 

[Commodore]

Not to mention Archduke's puzzling choice of going SE rather than SW; the campus is now no longer pillagable.

Singaboy needs to get on it; he's got some nice windows here.

[Ichabod]

Not to mention Archduke's puzzling choice of going SE rather than SW; the campus is now no longer pillagable.

Why not? 

I have a hard time understanding Civ 6 move rules.