[SPOILER] PB37 Dark Savant tries not to be a blatant MP n00b

[Mr. Cairo]

What exactly do you mean by "no white peace rule"?

[Dark Savant]

What exactly do you mean by "no white peace rule"?

I can't ask for cities that got captured in the current war, under the blanket prohibition of no trading cities.  I've seen other people complain about this too, but I realize it adds to the administration overhead.

White peace (to me, I'm not certain I have it right, come to think of it) is specifically returning to pre-current-war boundaries.

One other thing to everyone -- if ever I go out of bounds ethically, or even just act truly strange in a game-warping war, please let me know.  I've reached the point where I have not even a longshot chance of winning, so I now have different objectives.  (Fighting a war for war's sake, so I actually learn how to conduct MP war, may induce serious head-scratching.  I'm going down in flames in a few dozen turns maximum -- being run over by an overwhelming horde will not teach me much.)

[Mardoc]

White peace (to me, I'm not certain I have it right, come to think of it) is specifically returning to pre-current-war boundaries.

Seems to match the definition I'm finding online.  I knew the concept as status quo ante bellum, but white peace is easier to say .

It's a frustrating situation, because you're right, the only reason it's banned for your situation is for simplicity of administration of situations that aren't like yours.  That said - you probably couldn't get JR4 to agree to white peace unless you build a military capable of taking the cities by force - at which point you can take the cities by force.

One other thing to everyone -- if ever I go out of bounds ethically, or even just act truly strange in a game-warping war, please let me know.  I've reached the point where I have not even a longshot chance of winning, so I now have different objectives.  (Fighting a war for war's sake, so I actually learn how to conduct MP war, may induce serious head-scratching.  I'm going down in flames in a few dozen turns maximum -- being run over by an overwhelming horde will not teach me much.)

Ok!  Not out of bounds so far, though.  

Actually, you're probably the best sport I've seen at RB!  Lots of people manage to be calm and polite while winning, but very few people manage it while losing.  And you've not only managed politeness, you've managed to be consistent with turn pace and reporting and paying attention to double-moves and reloads. Not only 'not out of bounds', but you probably couldn't see the bounds from where you are.

Whatever's the opposite of a blacklisted player, that's you!

[Dark Savant]

It's a frustrating situation, because you're right, the only reason it's banned for your situation is for simplicity of administration of situations that aren't like yours.  That said - you probably couldn't get JR4 to agree to white peace unless you build a military capable of taking the cities by force - at which point you can take the cities by force.

Oh, I know he won't actually agree, but he wouldn't even know what I want, which isn't actually what I want to do even in a case where I have no intention of making peace.

Actually, you're probably the best sport I've seen at RB!  Lots of people manage to be calm and polite while winning, but very few people manage it while losing.  And you've not only managed politeness, you've managed to be consistent with turn pace and reporting and paying attention to double-moves and reloads.  Not only 'not out of bounds', but you probably couldn't see the bounds from where you are.

Whatever's the opposite of a blacklisted player, that's you!

Okay, that's good to know.  It helps a lot that I know I'm getting killed far in advance and can brace for it.  

t187-188:

Whoops, JR4 just razed one of the little baby cities I had.  I probably should have garrisoned it with more than just one longbow, but it's not like I lost much of anything there.

I have the strike force (such as it is) massed near the end of the canal.  Yeah, it works fine -- I just have never tried moving ships through ocean-city-lake-fort-lake-fort-fort-lake-city-ocean before.  I wonder if JR4 will react.

I really have to keep forts in mind for future games, since that's how I think Gavagai surprised me to begin with.

I still reserve the right to redirect all this force in defense if Gavagai tries attacking me immediately.  He'll have a much easier time attacking me if he doesn't try for the quick backstab.

[Dark Savant]

t189:

I don't think Gavagai is going to attack me -- mostly because he just launched an attack on GermanJoey.   He's captured two cities so far.

I land 18 units next to Mist.  I can reinforce the stack with 12 more units next turn.

[Dark Savant]

t190-191:

Gavagai and GermanJoey just signed a peace treaty.  I've also sighted a cannon of GermanJoey's -- he must have just gotten Steel, since there was just one.

Both JR4 and I are continuing to reinforce Mist like crazy.  There hasn't been a point where I can actually attack productively (other than drop its defenses), and I'm not sure if this is going to have any kind of payoff at all, because JR4 simply has a larger production base to begin with.  He's tried to crack my besieging stack, which wasn't productive for him.  And I can't ship my troops away -- I don't have enough galleons to move away everything, so I'd then lose what was left.

I've also killed some random ships of JR4, but that got my main frigate stack killed off.  He lost more than I did, but he can afford that more than I do just because he has a significantly larger production base.

If I cared more about defense I'd sign peace with JR4 to teleport my troops off, but Gavagai is going to take at least a few turns to reposition and heal his troops before he can hit me.  I doubt I could stop an attack even if I had all my troops at home, because dtay is knocking on the door of chumchu/Coeurva's capital -- and Krill also just joined that party with, er, a lot of maces and swords, but it's still overkill.  I can't get anything there before it falls -- if I'd known that collapse would have been so quick I probably would have tried to do something about it, but it's now too late.

I'm basically trying to stake things on JR4 getting attacked from both sides before I do.  That frankly is unlikely, but it's about all I can hope for at this point.

Oh -- Military Science is due in 5 turns, a Great Person for the Golden Age in 6 turns.  I'm still on schedule to fire off a third Golden Age and collapse during it. 

[Dark Savant]

If, as things stand as they are now, I have to choose between defending against Gavagai or dtay, I'd actually prefer things fall to Gavagai.  He might have been the one who took me out of the running entirely, but he hasn't actually been dishonorable (as far as I'm concerned) and it's dtay who's threatening to run away with the game.

I'm not sure why Gavagai lunged at GermanJoey and not dtay.  dtay's one city which I can always see (the one he captured from me) isn't that heavily garrisoned (5 Protective longbows behind a river, but that wouldn't stand up to the armies people are moving around now), and it's dtay whom I think is winning.  GermanJoey is higher in score and has been for a while, but that will change as dtay gets credit for the cities he's recently captured.

GermanJoey, incidentally, is now razing coastal cities of chumchu/Coeurva's on the mainland, presumably so dtay can't capture them.

[Dark Savant]

t192:

I'm continuing to add to the attack stack at Mist, though I'm not going to continue much more as that's just asking for an attack by Gavagai.  Also, Military Science is due in 4 turns for Grenadiers.  (I'm still braced for the collapse that would happen if Gavagai hit me now, but Castleview did just revolt, damaging all his units there.)  I won't be first to Military Science, since Krill revolted to Police State (it didn't sink in until it was a research option that Military Science allows that in this mod).  Oh, and Theocracy.  Maybe Krill will actually finally launch a serious war upon someone!

I might actually launch an attack next turn, if JR4 stops reinforcing.  If JR4 shows up with a lot of grenadiers or cannons, that's the sign to just give up, but he still just has muskets and knights -- I presume he's on the research path to rifles.

I should also note that I'm not bothering to whip my cities much -- I actually want to try to get something out of the upcoming Golden Age if at all possible.

dtay declared war upon GermanJoey, and promptly signed a peace treaty -- I'm assuming that's for the 10 turns of forced peace.

chumchu/Coeurva's capital has been captured -- he's down to three scattered cities now, and I'll have border exposure to dtay soon.  I should start a settler to fill in the remaining gap there, when I get a chance.

[Dark Savant]

t193:

Oh, now JR4 is starting to show up with a few grenadiers and ships of the line.  I start to move troops off the contested island; I wonder if he'll just try to displace the remaining ones next turn -- he can do it, but it'll be a bloody fight.

I don't have any intention of making peace, because that means JR4 can redistribute troops to his core's borders.

The next thing to try is to move galleons around to random islands of his, since they won't be as well defended.  It may take a while to arrange this, and I may need ships of the line of my own to break a blockade, but I can start building those in 3 turns.

[Dark Savant]

t194:

JR4 did attack my stack -- I lost almost the rest of my remaining stack; he lost quite a few units himself, but he definitely wins that one.

Oh well, better I make the mistake of "whoops can't uncommit troops delivered by boat" now than next game.    I'd also be paying more attention to who has what techs if I were actually in serious contention -- I would have changed strategies if I knew grenadiers were coming.

chumchu is down to one city.

A few more turns and I'll actually have new tech, civics, and a Golden Age!