I guess I'm due an update on the last turn. (since REM hasn't played in the 2,5 days since the turn rolled)
On the war front nothing much happened. REM didn't attack out and I didn't try to take any cities. Did a couple of naval battles (amongst other things I lost a 75% EI vs Galleon fight without follow up ), but nothing major. REM had been lucky/skilled enough to produce one frigate and one ironclad in range of my wounded units. Tough luck, but I don't think any of the EIs he flawlessly killed were loaded at least [Fake edit: actually one had an amphibious cavalry on, but I had basically given up on that unit already last turn]. They're quite a bit of a nuisance as they keep me from pushing up the fork without exposing loaded EIs to attack though.
On the south island I decided to take a bit of a risk and moved my 1-movers to threaten Chelyabinsk next turn.
The current garrison isn't that much of a worry (at least for attacking out), but he's gotten railroad on the interturn and with a couple of railroads he could hit me with extra 2-move infantry and cossacks. Of course, I've got ships in reach of the cities units would come from, so question is how much he'll like to gamble... I should probably also state that I'm woefully short on siege in this attack (although I'll have a few airships), but the same goes for REM. If I'd seen any siege on the island I would've considered this particular attack way too risky, so here's hoping that he doesn't build any on the turn or that his one galleon in range don't bring too tough reinforcements.
Apart from Chelyabinsk I'm threatening a few other cities, but I'll hold on to those plans for now until i see if anything comes out of it. I ended the turn by offering peace to REM for 200g per turn. I don't have a particular reason for the exact sum of 2000g (about ½ a turns GNP from either party), but I guess I see advantages with peace (can finish industrialising, can skip artillery and go straight to industrialism, can move troops from REM border and take two offending DZ cities), but I don't want it to seem like all EIs I've moved up are merely a bluff and I'm actually weak. 2000g would also be a good consolation price for not moving up my future positions more than I have...
In more negative news REM built Pentagon in Novgorod. I didn't really think I'd be in with a shot, but I'd say it was worth the effort (4t from building it myself). Sadly I've got a fair bit of overflow hammers that have simply gone to waste this turn as there wasn't a single building/wonder available where I could've used them. Might be that I should've simply built wealth until the Radio wonders, but after all, I am at war currently with the game leader and another guy at basically tech parity...
In international news Barteq is really slaughtering Adrien now, taking 4 cities this turn. Just before Barteqs war declaration I seriously considered taking my army south and trying to grab the remains of Adrien and Boak. At the time they looked like the easiest conquests available. What stopped me in the end was that after the DZ incident I didn't believe REM would let me do any conquering in peace and I'd therefore have to keep next to all of my troops back home.
Also did a city count last turn. Seems like I'm down to 4th by now
Whining apparently helped as REM played his turn last night.
This morning I was greeted by a pm from him.
Apparently he's made a counter offer of 60gpt for peace.
First off, I'm grateful that he let me know. As he said, this way I'll be able to have a look around before unpausing and opening the diplo window.
But it won't give me a full picture. For instance I won't know for sure if my EIs in the inner sea will be able to raze a size 18 city (need to either run an airship mission or move up the frigate for that).
Then the offer itself.
I can fool myself all I want about 600g giving me 5 useful riflemen to infantry upgrades or something like that, but really this sum is a pittance at this stage.
Still, even though I might've hoped for more, I could write this war off as a net positive for me. Just comparing REM and me I'd be getting 1200g in the peace deal. Add me taking 5 of his workers (600h swing). Add a strategically good location in the middle of the south island. Add about 5-600 hammers in units that I've killed more than he has.
Yeah, it's not much, but it is something at least.
So, who would benefit from the peace deal?
Well REM certainly. He has much more to lose at this stage in the war than I have and 10t of peace isn't insignificant when there's what? 50t left of teching for the spaceship??
If this was a duel between REM and me with no one else on the map I seriously doubt it'd be worth it, but let's look at the pros for peace:
- I have 10t to conquer Donovan.
Honestly there's no way that'll be enough time for me. With perfect preparation and execution it might be possible to take him out in 10t, but that's a luxury I won't have this time around. However, 10t just might be enough to take Zinaar and Darnassus (and possibly raze Voidcaller) to get a safer border that require less future troops.
(reminder of local geography in spoilers)
- Generally I also think it might be good to show DZ that REM won't go all out in protecting him. DZ had the option of taking white peace, but declined in the light of remembering the defensive pact. REM looks more to his own interests. Sure, if we end up in war again I do still expect DZ to take a bite out of me if an opportunity presents itself, but he might not go all in when the odds are uncertain.
- I can skip Artillery. Granted, this is a generally risky tech route, but I should be able to build Battleships around the time my REM peace treaty expires and it might be necessary for me to take some risks if I'm to catch up. In particular I'll get slightly earlier Electricity (watermill and windmill bonus) and I'll probably be about 2t quicker to computers (and the Internet wonder).
- Since declaring war I've hardly built any units. So far it has worked out, but who knows how much longer that won't be punished? Getting peace with REM probably means that I can go for factories in island locations instead of chopping into units...
Honestly I'm pretty much on the fence here, but dangling my feet on the peace side. I'll just have to check out the situation in a few hours and see whether he's upset me enough by taking a shot at some of my poor units or something in order to throw peace out the window
T192
So, I did get a counteroffer from REM of 60gpt.
I didn’t get to look around first though before accepting/declining as Gav had left the game unpaused.
Well, I did look around a wee bit using the F5 military view and noticed no extra units in Chelyabinsk.
What to do, what to do?…
Let’s continue to WAR
I start with having a frigate drop cultural defenses to 4% in Chelyabinsk.
Then 3 airships deal 2hits to top defender and 1 to second infantry.
pinch infantry vs cg1 inj infantry (87,9%)… LOSS (3hits)
c1 infantry vs inj c1 infantry (69,2%)… WIN (4hits)
Here I could use a pinch infantry to kill last rifle, but I feel like it’s more important to cover for a counter attack… inj pinch cavalry vs cg1 rifle (22,5/23,3%)… Withdraw (1hit)
pinch cavalry vs cg1 rifle (47,3/15,8%)… LOSS (4hits)
c1 rifle vs inj cg1 infantry (99,9%)… Flawless WIN
shock knight vs inj rifle (99,9%)… Flawless WIN and the city and 93g is ours.
Not the best infrastructure haul, but I'll take it (hopefully I'll be able to hold it as well...)
The galleon that REM had entering next door city Samara this turn contained 2 infantries and 1 cossack, so he does have some possibility for a counterattack (2inf and 1cos since earlier), but I've got 3 healthy pinch infantry on the tile NE of Chelyabinsk, so it's not clear that such a thing would be worth it to him.
Otherwise I had 3 naval battles. c1 Frigate vs blockading sentry privateer (73,8%)… LOSS (4hits)
EI vs inj galleon (99,9%)… Flawless win
Inj frigate vs inj frigate (93%)… Win
Also razed an empty city over in the east:
REM is pushing out all different kinds of boats at the minute though so soon I might lose some of my advantage at sea...
And he's 2-turning artillery so Destroyers will soon arrive on the scene.
I'm trying to put pressure on some more island cities, but am not sure whether I'll succeed in gaining any more major gains.
Though for instance this size 3 city will fall next turn unless REM has put one turn into a road on a crucial spot or switch into serfdom:
All in all now might start to be a good time to get out of the war for this time around so I sent back the offer of peace for 60gpt from him. Not sure he's interested in it anymore though so I wouldn't put away all popcorn just yet...
First off, I don't know what I've been smoking , but apparently workers in serfdom don't build 1-t railroads. Somehow I was absolutely sure I had checked this, but apparently I hadn't
This means that I'll be excruciatingly(instead of just terribly so) short on workers on the main continent while the rail network is set up.
I might also have to re-evaluate my labor-civic-column after the GA ends. +1h to all mines is still an alternative, but dropping a few hammers in order to gain a slight edge in commerce and extra food through emancipated windmills might just win out. Or I could go all in on getting a sixth ga through caste?
btw. REM just birthed another GS. I believe his current GA is only his second. I wonder how many GAs he's aiming for? I do believe he bulbed a couple people around the time of Physics/Biology, but don't know for sure...
In other news:
I'm generally not the hugest fan of Gavagais fairly aggressive play style. At the same time I can't help but be slightly amazed and awestruck. That's three different players he's taking a city from on the same turn! (yes, both boak and Adrien are rapidly dying, and the dtay one seems to be a raze, but still)
HANG ON, that's 43 points dtay lost in the raze!
Can't be dtays HE city that bit the dust can it? (it's on the mainland, but quite close to the island I believe Gav is primarily targeting).
Note to self: My island closest to Gav. The one with my National Epic, my Globe theatre, my best trade route cities and soon three other of my best production cities. Might be a good idea to get some proper defenders to all good cities and not just next to REM. Just saying.
So, I went ahead and accepted.
REM used last turn to cheapen the deal by 200g and kill off a few boats of mine, but I still believe Chelyabinsk and a one turn later peace deal might've been worth it.
I used the peace given to start moving troops towards Donovan and change research from Artillery (not started) to Electricity(2t) -> Industrialism(3t?) -> Combustion(2t?).
To be honest, the only reason why I'd want to attack DZ now is the 10t peace treaty. Otherwise this time is ill chosen. He's built/upgraded his way to a fairly big stack of redcoats and cavalry already. In addition he's got lots of cats hanging around and will get steel next turn...
Therefore I haven't committed to an attack just yet, but I'll start with getting some troops in position and reevaluate afterwards. At a minimum I want to stagger some peace treaties if REM comes calling for revenge in 10t, but if there's room for a raze/resettle or even a couple of captures anything's still on the table.
As for the tech path, I realise that skipping Artillery has its risks, but in the medium term it has the potential of decreasing my Internet (+15% science) eta with 2t and in the long term its about 7k base beakers off spaceship costs. The alternative to skipping Artillery would be to skip Flight (actually much more expensive than arty), but trying to survive the end game without fighters when your opponent rocks bombers sounds even more silly.
Now you just can wait for me banging my head against the wall when REM positions his destroyer stack so that he can reach my battleships while I can't reach his ships...
Speaking of naval reach, another tech which potentially can be skipped for a further ~7k base beakers is refrigeration. Here it'll probably mostly be a matter of how much I set back my production capacity by potentially shrinking some large hammer cities vs getting access to supermarkets. Don't have to make a call on this tech for quite a while though.
Summing up the war I'll post a picture of my south islands and REMs "northern" holdings.
"Vindal" in the middle of the island was settled this turn. I would've preferred to settle on the hill (1E), but I didn't want to risk REM having a settler on his galleon close to Murmansk and beating me to the punch.
Sadly I was at no point close to getting all the cities on the island, but you can also see why REM wants to protect this land. If I had the island he's got a whole lot of old Commodore lands, such as cottage heaven Saradash, that are quite vulnerable to boating.
Also visible is Gavagai who soon will be able to threaten in both the west and the east, making any future farmers gambiting from REM a lot less appealing.
Current demos:
What I want to show here is that even though REM and I were in a hot war I've done pretty well with catching him in the industrialisation process lately. Thus early Assembly line gained him Pentagon (which is no small deed), but I kind of feel like I'm gaining on the runaway now, millimetre by millimetre.
Production graph in spoilers:
On another note I'm starting to believe dtay might be out of the running as far as a victory goes. He's still large (btw. his HE-city is fine, must've been another city that was razed last turn), but I don't see how he's going to catch up. City wise he's comparable to the other three candidates, but his stats are clearly worse in anything but food. While REM, me and Gav all are organised dtay doesn't have a single economic trait (imp/ind). Nor does he have a shrine to compensate. Earlier I also thought that Sistine might give him a shot at a cultural victory, but I had a look through his land last turn and seems like he doesn't have any cities with multiple religions, lots are without religion entirely. Surely he would've needed to start spreading religion and building temples by now if he was to challenge?
I've read through this 83 page epic (I stopped about halfway through and read krill's so I could get the story for the other continent) and it has been super enjoyable.
Good luck for the remaining turns and may REM stand for Reduced 'n' Easily Managed (if / when you read this REM I've loved your game here but only from this perspective, I haven't read your thread and so have to root for TaoTao).
(July 7th, 2016, 03:30)Pharmboy_Andy Wrote: I've read through this 83 page epic ... and it has been super enjoyable.
Hi! thanks for your encouraging words and welcome to realms beyond!
t194
More or less as expected I started the turn with a white peace offer from Donovan.
Sorry DZ, had I been given this offer at any time while I was at war with REM I would've taken you up on the offer in a second, but at the moment peace doesn't profit me no matter what my intentions are.
So what could I potentially gain from war?
Well, not a lot.
True, if I had an unbreakable NAP with REM for the rest of the game and focused my production on military, then I could eventually conquer England at current tech. It would be a slog though. Actually, even though DZ has very fine land and probably well developed cities I'm not sure I'd even break even from a space race perspective if factoring in the unit-hammers lost.
The act of sending in units would therefore have to have a secondary purpose. In this case that purpose would be territorial security. The wedge that DZs ex-incan cities has broken into my empire is a constant cause of concern and my cities in the area are hurting as a consequence. (random screenshot of area in spoilers)
Ideally I'd be able to raze both Zinaar and Darnassus and replace them with one "front" city 1E of Zinaar.
Just razing one of them doesn't get me very much though and I believe I need something in the region of 30 quality hitters to have a decent shot at achieving my goal.
That made me search for easier targets. And to some extent they do exist. A party of ~6 cavs could almost certainly raze sz15 Blingtron for instance. However, I don't have the luxury of time where it would be beneficial to cripple a party to have an easier time 40t from now. Cities captured then would never contribute an iota. It's also a very unfun way to play (against).
However, I also did a recon airship mission and stumbled upon this very lightly defended temptation island
If 30 cavs would get me 2 city razes against Donovan, imagine what they could do here? I bet that well coordinated they'd have a good shot at claiming the whole island!
So that's the temptation. There's two reasons I wouldn't want to attack dtay though. First off there's the tactical situation. I might actually be able to get gains here that would decisively help me in the space race, but I'd be living in a much more dangerous world. If dtay's out of the running for a win I doubt I'll get any help with REM from him. He will presumably get other goals though. I guess Gav would be highest on his hit list, but I've got a very long coast towards Sumeria and if I take their big island I bet he wouldn't mind getting one (better developed) from me instead. If nothing more, then attacking dtay will at least force me to keep much larger garrisons in my western cities.
Secondly there's the "moral" aspect. Dtay and I have had health-health trades going for goodness knows how long. Just before he got attacked by Gav he also offered me a military alliance (iron+copper+horse-trade). Thinking he was offering help in taking down REM I responded with a mutual strategic resource trade. I don't think Gav played into this offer at all, and there's no way that I would attack him during current circumstances, but it still feels slightly deceitful not helping dtay out at all. Obviously, really stabbing him in the back would be taking things a few steps further...
Anyway, on the war front nothing really has happened apart from me moving some troops further south.
In world news though, REM has now finished the Statue of Liberty
I've known for a long time that he would get it, but still it can't really be classified as good news.
Better though is that his GA has run out, so now I temporarily have a fairly good lead in the demos:
I can also mention in domestic news that I'll get my next GP next turn with a very mixed pool:
And for some reason I can't help but show off a little darling of a city I have that finally got it's dike
(July 7th, 2016, 11:36)taotao Wrote: And for some reason I can't help but show off a little darling of a city I have that finally got it's dike
Nice. Now relocate Moai to it .
hey Tao, great update, i still fallow your thread, do you mind if i just look around sometimes?i will touch nothing just to see inside how is looking the empire...
(July 8th, 2016, 06:29)mackoti Wrote: hey Tao, great update, i still fallow your thread, do you mind if i just look around sometimes?i will touch nothing just to see inside how is looking the empire...
Ask the tech thread, please. More likely to bother one of Taotao's opponents than to bother him.
), but nothing major. REM had been lucky/skilled enough to produce one frigate and one ironclad in range of my wounded units. Tough luck, but I don't think any of the EIs he flawlessly killed were loaded at least [Fake edit: actually one had an amphibious cavalry on, but I had basically given up on that unit already last turn]. They're quite a bit of a nuisance as they keep me from pushing up the fork without exposing loaded EIs to attack though.
, but apparently workers in serfdom don't build 1-t railroads. Somehow I was absolutely sure I had checked this, but apparently I hadn't 
