[SPOILERS] Peter of the Ottomans carries a big stick

[thestick]

well w/ expansive and 4 health resources, we won't be unhealthy for quite awhile! hah. At least we have one happy - are elephant units banned?

I'm pretty sure War Elephants are banned. Having an extra happy face is great, though.

This spot has a lot of food. This looks like a great worker whipping factory and a settler producing factory.

w/ ice to our right it makes exploring easier - we we only have one direction to go. I would think that makes rexing easier as well - we will likely be penned in by one neighbor. Depending on how far away he is, we may be able to expand for awhile, or we may need to consider fighting.

I also predict we may consider moving our capital at some point, but for now its not too bad.

We're assuming the ice is there to block us off, which is a good guess, but we need to state right off the bat that it's an assumption. It looks like we have two land connections - northern tundra and southern grasslands. I'm guessing that the northern tundra is a dead end and the southern grassland leads to someone else, but we don't know at all. There's also an off chance that we're on our own little island.

I feel we should move our warrior in a roughly circular pattern. With no huts or barbarians there's no big rush to explore besides finding new city sites and the opponents. I know I'm being really paranoid, but I don't want an enemy warrior just walking into the capital.

is there forest on that deer? unforested tundra deer, yuck.

There is forest on that deer.

do we know the map type? If it's pangea, I really don't think we have to worry about culture victory from anyone. Regardless, if someone attempts it everyone will see it coming and likely work together to prevent it.

We honestly don't know anything about the map. We're on Emperor, meaning maintenance costs won't be trivial. It's Low sea level, Cold climate with some water. We don't even know whether this map is Flat, Cylindrical, or Torodial!

With grasslands scarce, any type of economy will be harder to pull off. We'll probably need to cottage or specialist like mad just to keep ourselves from overexpanding. We'll also need some military...

1. Do we focus on cottages or specialists?
Being Philosophical, we'd be fools to not run some specialists,build some wonders, or lightbulb some key techs. However, a dedicated specialists economy really requires The Pyramids. With two Industrious builders, it'll only be worthwhile if we can get our hands on some stone. Bringing me to point 2...

2. What wonders do we plan on targeting?
If we're going to run a specialist economy, as previously stated, Pyramids are essential. I'm thinking the only other early wonders worth targeting are Stonehenge and the Great Lighthouse. We might be able to chop enough forests to beat the Industrious builders to Stonehenge. Problem is, those forest chops would be chops not going to more workers!

The Great Lighthouse, as evidenced by many previous games (see: PAL in the Apolyton demogame) is a great way to make Land and Cities into GNP. Of course, there's still that pesky problem of building it.

The Great Wall is useless on a No Barbarians map. The Temple of Artemis is also not that great. Sure there's some synergy between it and the Great Lighthouse, but again, those are hammers that aren't going to more Expansive workers and Granaries! We're probably not getting the Oracle, given how good it is and guessing that Nicolae is headed for it.

...that is one long post.

[Bigger]

eh, I should have asked what are starting techs are! hah.

I agree with your assessment. Only, bring try to explore green over tundra w/ the worker. if your circle is south and west we should be able to see an enemy worker coming w/ a little luck.

I'd love to build the pyramids here, but it will be tough. I vote our first 2 wonders are "settlers" and we see what happens from there.

The great lighthouse is devalued since our capital isn't coastal, though. Not sure we need stonehenge necessarily - with 5 players only we will most likely research our own religion soon enough. Stonehenge requires such an early commitment, and I'd rather build settlers.

But lets explore! Maybe we fine stone (cross fingers).

[thestick]

Yeah, exploring the southern grasslands, all else being equal, is better than exploring the northern tundra. Incorporating those grassland river tiles into specialists or cottages will be the key to not going bankrupt.

About religion: I usually don't prioritize it, instead heading for expansion. We'll probably skip the early religions and grab Confucianism or Judaism on the way to something else.

I've been thinking: this capital (and possibly a city in the grasslands) will make a great Great People farm. I really should've put it together sooner: three food AND Philosophical?

After the worker, do you think we should build a second worker or wait until Krakatoa grows to a larger size? Although no matter what we do it won't come out until T16, having two Expansive workers that can run around improving the land and chop out more stuff will be very useful. The downside, of course, is not having a military unit besides the starting warrior. Plus, it might be more efficient to grow to size 2 and pick up more tiles.

I'm pretty sure Expansive means that generally you want to chop/whip workers and overflow into settlers, right? The chop and whip give raw hammers which gets modified by the expansive bonus, while the food from just natural building doesn't get multiplied and should be applied to settlers.

[thestick]

Again, not much happening. Moved Warrior South.

Only semi-interesting thing is the Demos:


Well, for one, Sian is the only other team to settle the capital on T0. Their capital is also coastal, having one tile of coast in the first ring. If these starts are mirrored, they must have moved one tile south or east. If they moved their warrior SE, could they see the crabs?

Other option is that the starts aren't mirrored.

Also: play time 40 minutes. On the beginning of T1.

[thestick]

Okay, after looking at the map again, I believe Sian moved South. He's making 4 hpt on production, which would be boosted to 5 if he was working on a worker while Expansive. He could only get 3 hpt by working land if he had a plains hills forest in first ring. Only the southern spot allows the plains hills forest to be worked.

Of course if starts aren't mirrored then this argument is moot, but what game doesn't have mirrored starts these days?

Anyway, time for early-game planning. If we go Worker-Worker, the second worker comes out on T16. If we go Worker - Grow to Size 2 - Worker, the second worker comes out on T19. I tried to shave an extra turn off of it, but the best we can do is 39/40 on T18. By improving the wheat then the deer, we will have our city at size 2, one extra warrior, 2 hammers into another warrior, 9 hammers in overflow, 7 food surplus, and 3 hammers per turn (I think).

(Getting up to 4 hpt to get the Expansive bonus is offset by the worker movement times and the lower food surplus)

I think we should do that. Thoughts?

[Commodore]

Sorry to burst a promising C&D bubble, but temporary bonuses (Expansive making a worker, Philosophical making a university, etc) don't show up in the MFG. If you'll note your own 4-hammer total, you can see the same effect.

Permanant boosts, like forges, do show up.

*edit. You are correct (if assuming mirrored start), however, about his tile configuration. There's just no way to tell if he's making a worker, a warrior, or monument.

[thestick]

Sorry to burst a promising C&D bubble, but temporary bonuses (Expansive making a worker, Philosophical making a university, etc) don't show up in the MFG. If you'll note your own 4-hammer total, you can see the same effect.

Permanant boosts, like forges, do show up.

*edit. You are correct (if assuming mirrored start), however, about his tile configuration. There's just no way to tell if he's making a worker, a warrior, or monument.

Given he's Expansive I'm assuming he's going worker first. But you're right, it is an assumption.

[Bigger]

How do you know he's coastal? Sorry, my C&D skills are a little weak.
I was actually wishing you had moved one south too. But it doesnt matter that much.

There is one extra benefit of going worker-warrior-worker. With a defender at home you can send our starting worker out exploring without fear of being caught with our pants down. Since you are only losing 2-3 turns I think this is the right path.

[Bigger]

if you're going to improve the wheat first, make sure you stop and improve the elephant for one turn, rather than just moving to the wheat and wasting his turn.

[thestick]

How do you know he's coastal? Sorry, my C&D skills are a little weak.
I was actually wishing you had moved one south too. But it doesnt matter that much

Land Area. 'Rival Best' is 8000, meaning that one of our rivals has 8 land tiles in his city's first ring. Sian's the only one that's settled a city, so he must have 8 land tiles and 1 water tile.

Assuming starts are mirrored, I know he moved south. He settled last turn, meaning that he had to move onto a flat tile (non-forest or hill) and only move one space. He has one coast tile, meaning he moved either east or south. He's making 4 hpt base, meaning that he must be working a 3hpt plains hills forest and the city center. If he moved east, he wouldn't have a plains forest hill first ring of his capital. Therefore, if starts are mirrored, then he must have settled his capital one tile south from the starting position.

The southern crabs weren't visible from the start. I'm pretty sure there's no way to move the warrior and see them. Maybe he got lucky? Even without seeing the crabs, he could've valued coastal access and extra grasslands.

Nice catch on the elephant tile. We could also consider putting one turn into roading the tile NW of the capital, as a road there could connect the wheat and deer to the capital.