Imperium Seven - Reports and Discussion

[AlanSHB]

I played this one and got range 5 from the artifact world. I stopped taking notes shortly thereafter when I realized how much of a runaway that was. I'm still planning to try it again and hope for something not quite so ridiculous from the planet. Executive summary--We got the east side, and parts of the north. Yeah they didn't like us, yes we voted ourselves king regardless. I didn't have a "real" war since the only race to declare on me didn't have range enough to reach one of my planets. The galaxy seemed much more interested in picking a cat/bird side than fighting the universally repugnant darloks. But that's probably because the cats and birds kept running off with their toys.

All in all, this was nice but didn't feel very epic because of the luck with range 5 early. I'm loving reading maniac's varient tho. I didn't have that much spying--just enough to force people to loathe birds or cats.

[Maniac Marshall]

2471 - We run over the defenses at Endoria



We settle at Gora. I send it pop from Xengara. I should have done this earlier. Oh well.

2472 - We make annother theft from the bugs



The Klackons say we are too big. Like they are one to talk.



Bears sing "All we are saying..."



We send more troops from Rhilus to help take Phantos.

2473 - Still annother theft from the Bugs, with computers not available. We take one of the weapons.



It's 147 vs 97 at Phantos. We get horrible rolls.



OK, so I send 36 million from Rhilus to finish Phantos.

2474 - We try again at Phantos



It was enough to win this time. In fact we got awsome rolls, only losing 4 troops. I lost the "after" pic however . We call up the Bulrathi to see if they still want peace.



I have no interest in taking the 2 poor boarder planets they have left, and I'm thinking that I'll just let the bugs Genocide them too, making our war totally just. (GNN reports there is NO evidence the Klackons have ever peacfully co existed. And now, in sports....). I think it's time to make a quickie scout design to see what the klackons have on those ships of theirs.



It's not something I've really done before, and yet this design makes so much sense I wonder why I haven't. Mostly the planets are still building factories.
2475 - Election time rolls arround . Bugs 25 votes themselves, Bears 3 votes me, me 28 votes abstain. Factories start maxing out all over. I let them go to research for now to "jump start" BC X to get intrest going.

2476 - Our scout III comes back with pictures of the Bug's designs



The bugs have one MAJOR flaw in fleet planing. They have nary a single ship with 2 space beam weapons . They also don't have repulsors or dissipators, so a cruiser design with both and 2 space guns should be able to completely annihilate a stack like that . Those Singer Cruises they have are worrysome, and those graveton ships are bona fide stack killers, but they can be dealt with. I scrap all designs except for the Police Bass and Brown Recluse. First, I build a cruiser ship to deal with those bomber stacks, second a merc boat to deal with their beamer ships before they can destroy our cruisers (Stingers were still too big to fit on a small properly), then, of course, we'll need a glass maker, and finally, a little beamer of our own. OK, maybe these didn't turn out to be the best designs I ever made (more on that later), but they did do the job and covered all contingencies.



Then we need to pick a place to attack. Their Artifacts planets right on the boarder look like a nice place to start We set the rally point to the local Rich planet.

2479 - The Bugs come up with improved 3. I'd like to steal that.

2480 - The Bugs signal THEIR intent to start a final war?



Eh? If they don't, I will soon anyway. The Bears have taken Meklon? Go bears

2481 - Annother tech theft. The Bugs now have something in planetology. I decide to take that as it might be Controlled Toxic or Radiated or Advanced Soil Enrichment.



Hmm, ok, still useful though. I give everywhere a single click to terraform. We have actually taken the lead in production now

2482 - BC X hits. Here is What is left of our tech tree



I'll grab those Nullifiers, then then Oracle interface in case the Bugs switch over to large designs, then Jammer IX, then I'll just run cheapest to most expensive till its on to advanced tech. GNN Special Report



The Bugs have Robotics VI, there goes my production advantage.

2483 - Minor theft vs the Bugs, only weapons and propulsion available. We take weapons and get:



The Bears decide to commit suicide .



2484 - Ye olde broken record department reports we have executed annother minor theft. This time we have to take range 8.



The Bugs now have impulse drives. The big, scary fleet glasses Meklon. I Switch Stalaz over to Bases and the rich planets back to Reserves. I set Reloc to Stalaz.

2485 - Annother theft, all fields this time. We take Computers to aid future thefts:



2486 - Man, the Bugs R-E-A-L-L-Y suck at catching spies. (This is something I've noticed in other games. Is it coincedence? Or are the Bugs just coded to run low security or something similar to that?) We get yet annother breakthrough, this time we take Improved 3, Leaving the bugs only up Fusion Drives.



Everywhere that looks to be within range of the bugs switches to building bases. I want these planets within 8 parsects of them to be fortresses.

Lets look at the status of things.



Thinking ahead to potential targets, our first target will be Collassa, the artifacts planet north of Altair. It only has 13 bases so far so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge if we strike soon. I have the backline planets take a couple turns off ships to boost tech intrest.

OK, so that wasn't the most exciting set of turns. Is this a trend? Or is it just the quiet before the storm? Don't touch that browser button.

[Maniac Marshall]

2487 - Lets start this war shall we?



Well, that was easy.

2488 - Next up, the other Artifacts planet, Drakka, with 24 bases. It's a similar result.



We'll swing up and waste nebula Crypto next. Looking ahead, I'll need to take at Least Vega, and either Yarrow or one of the Bear planets to have the range to glass everywhere.

2489 - We steal Impulse drives. Nice, but probably too late to really matter.



2490 - Goodbye nebula planet



Hello Ion Drives.



The bugs are making a play for Maalor. I redirect all ships within 1 turn of it to go there. I like hyperspace comm. The fleet of destruction sets course for Celtsi. The Klackons have no tech we don't have, so we set to Sabatage. Lets get some Riots going in their core . A second fleet heads to glass Fieras.

2491 - Entire fleet destroyed.



Fieras overun. It was defenseless, so I didn't bother taking a picture. I'm amazed I didn't glass it.



The Bugs have allready resettled both the Artifacts planets .

2492 - Celtsi and Fieras are glassed.





2493 - A large Klackon fleet arrives at Fieras. It is completely annihilated by half a dozen cruisers.. We bomb Altair.



Plague strikes Xengara.



OK, its been captured, constantly battled over, revolted, and now plagued. Why does ANYONE want to live there?

2494 - A bunch more Klackon ships are eliminated. Basically we fight a couple rounds, then just retreat everything but the cruisers, hit Auto, and watch Klackon smalls die . It was kind of funny at first, now its kind of pathetic. We get our first "sabatage" and decide to incite the homeworld.



Draka, Crypto, Meklon, Altair all glassed. I got tired of taking bombing pictures, and decided not to bother taking any RE-glasing pictures at all. Sue me.

2495 - Wow, I lose at Altair because of those Large stinger ships. We incite Kholdan again.



We bomb Collassa out of Existance again. we design a Warp 6 medium Dead Base Colship and make a few to grab steping stone planets.

2496- Blast some ships. Nothing major is happening.

2497 - We arrive at Zhardan, our first new planet in a while and glass it.



We lose about 100 bombers in the process. We runover/glass the bears Endoria. We incite at Arietis, but lamely.



The bug spies strike back .

.

Technoligy Nullifier hits, we go for Oracle interface. Endoria survives to see annother day. Just one though.



GNN informs us the plague is still going on.



Kinda late in the day now Bear boy.



2498 - General housekeeping battles. We easily win them all with few losses. Zhardan settled, Endoria glassed. Zhardan is set to be the new rally point. This is the definition of "battleground planet"



2499 - Defeat at Simius, mainly because the Klackons now have scatter packs. As in Scatter Pack VII. This is BAD. Hmm Bears want peace? Just ask.



At this point I committed a major tactical blunder in retrospect. What I SHOULD have done was decide that it was no longer efficient to build little bombers that could simply get slaughtered by scatter packs. Needing 4k of those things to have a chance at bombing out planetary bases isn't a good deal. I DID consider making stinger boats instead, but at the time I couldn't fit both stingers and a BC on the same small ship and thought I'd wait. Making large/huge bombers with high shielding and repulsors to keep the fighters off would have been annother option. In the long run, the result wouldn't have been diffrent, but I'm sure the game could have been finished several turns faster.

Annother area where I'm sure I made mistakes was in not taking full advantage of Hyperspace Communications. I confess I've NEVER had that tech in any game that wasn't allready more over than this one.

Actually, at this point in the game, I was rapidly losing intrest, and therefore my "edge". I expected more out of the Klackons. I wanted, needed, an epic glass fest to decide this game, and... well, they clearly weren't EVER going to be a serious threat to my planets.... Thousands and thousands of bombers they had, and yet the AI had no clue what to do with them .

2500 - My bombers get slaughtered at Yarrow. It looks like we are going to need thousands to do the job. I switch everywhere over to bombers.

2501 - This time success at Simius. I forgot to take an orbital picture. We lose about 100 bombers and fighters before we glass it (forgot to take that picture too). Yeah, yeah. I bomb your worlds and you want me to join your side.



Time for the 50 year status report.



2502 - We finally steal the good scatter packs



The Bears ask for peace.



I oblige. No sense being genocidal... yet .

2303 - Near success at Simius, but we run out of bombs and bombers.



We'll invade past that base next turn.

2504 - We change our mind about the bears and decide to wipe them from existance.



Hmm, we don't have much of a fleet here, this could take a while. [Actually, I continued bombing it for the next several turns, but didn't bother to take pictures of it.] We cure the plague on Xengara but forget to get a picture .

2505 - We lose a bunch of stuff trying to take Arities, but do get it down to 8 bases. We'll tyr again soon. Our ground invasion of Yarrow comes off nicely however.



Universal Antidote was just learned on the interturn too. GNN says the universe is close to becoming ours



No Bugman, we can challenge them just fine on our own. You are going to die too.



2506 - Our spies incite a revolt at Arites.



Try fixing those bases there now heh.

Well, it looks like a foregone conclusion now doesn't it? Tune in for the next instalment anyway .

[Maniac Marshall]

.

[Maniac Marshall]

[i]As I mentioned earlier, starting a few turns back, I got a bit sloppy in both play and picture taking. About this time it started becoming even more that way. I was getting tired of grinding out a won game. The Klackons researching Scatter Packs didn't really make any diffrence in the balance of power. All it accomplished was to slow down my rate of conquest, making it more of a chore. I'd long since given up on in depth military planing. I was firmly entrenched in "lets hurry up and get this over" mode. Ironically, that probably just made the game take longer to complete.

One of the things that started to suffer even more was consistant picture taking. From here on out orbital pictures and inciting pictures become kinda scarce.[/i]


2508 - We run over the 15 bases at Regulus (no orbital pic, sorry) and do this:



Oracle interface comes in. We go back for Jammer IX. We've bombed the Bulrathi down to 53 people on that ultra poor, but they still havent declared war .

2511 - We finally genocide the bears





It's kind of ironic that, as many times as they declared war on me, they simply refused to declare war while I bombed their final planet right out of existance.

The Klackons want peace...



2512 - We settle Xendalla. It's hard to kill the replacement colonies faster than they can make them . I'm not getting anywhere at the moment. I did do some inciting.



2513 - The Bugs have a new design. It's a small toting nuclear missiles .. I put their artifacts planet into revolt.



2518 - We do some inciting at Laan. Jammer IX comes in, we go for Jammer VI. We bomb Vega out of existance.



The bugs FINALLY get Kholdan and Arities out of revolt . The Klackons have Improved 2, lets steal it.

2519 - They had it for 1 turn before we stole it



We waste Arities.



2520 - I decide the 13K bombers I have are enough for now. I scrap the old Police Bass (Sting was the Bassist for The Police. The design toted Stingers. Did you all get that terrible pun?) design and whip up a new missile boat.



2521 - The Klackons want peace. I tell em tough luck.



2522 - We try at Morrow, but lose all all bombers for half their bases.



We do some inciting at Laan, then we waste Retculi.



I never noticed this before, but apparently when the AI gets a planet back from revolt it loses all its missile bases? I notice my forces approaching Omicron will face no bases and Kholdan only has 2 bases? Wow, thats good to know for future reference.

2523 - Their Artifacts planet goes bye bye.



Jammer VI hits, we go for Jammer VIII. We settle Retculi to get the corner planets. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Keeping the bugs from resetting is a {female dog}. They have resettled both Simius and Retculi. We send a fleet to Retculi, and use hyperspace comm to redirect units to Simius.

2524 - Say goodbye to your homeworld.



Fieras and Simius re-glassed. The biggest problem preventing resettling is that, though their fleet poses no real threat, It is so big and so everywhere I can't both defend planets and attack too. Even when I leave the cruisers behind, they usually cant kill 5k ships before time runs out. I think I have enough fleet in the north. I reloc everythiong to Yarrow.

2526 - Say goodbye to Morrow.



Wow, here comes the Crystal entity .



I have NO idea what happened with this event. Aparently the entity must have taken a wong turn somewhere or other because it NEVER made its appearence....

I note everywhere is now within 7 parsects of one of my worlds, so it's just a matter of wasting everything now. I go through and redirect all the new missile boats to yarrow to form one last force that can waste planets before games end. I then go through and shut off ship building. We'll do all research from here on out. Here is one final status report.



I have just now pulled ahead in fleet strength.

2527 - Poor Vulcan had no bases. I didn't even bother with a battle picture there.



But I did here at Laan



I do some inciting at Kalis, but its only6% . GNN has a fleet strength report



Wow, I'm behind again. Getting a lot of bombers toasted makes a big diffrence heh.

2528 - I am only able to wipe out half the bases at Rigel before they tost my bombers I do wipe out the Colony at Irana though, and I forgot to get the space battle pic...



The damn bugs have resettled Omicron. I'll have to waste it again. Here is a look at the Klackons 2 newish designs that I took in some side battle or other



Yes, that NEUCLEAR missile boat is the Klackons 2nd newest design...... Yes, they scraped a Large Stinger Missile design to make this one. Yes, that was their only design that really gave me anything to worry about. No, this silly design can't scratch my cruisers that have shield 6. No, I have no idea what the AI was smoking when it came up with that .

2529 - Proteus is wasted, but so were half my bombers.



We do a little whittling at Kalis. I trade 500 missile boats for 21 of the 30 bases (forgot to get Pic). Jammer VIII comes in, we go for BC IX, the last tech before Advanced Tech!

2531 - The 2nd try at Rigel succeedes, though we lose about 1K bombers



We re waste Omicron... Stupid resettlments GRRRRRR. The stupid Bugs want peace. I tell them to kiss off.



We have amassed most of the fleet at Yarrow, so its time to use it to waste the south. It heads for Artemis.

2532 - Vulcan rewasted. We arrive at Nyarl



We lose about half the bomber stack, but we waste all the ships and bases. Then we arrive at Artemis



The stinger boats easily waste all the bases. I should have started making those sooner as they are SO better than fusion bombers, but it took SO long for them to fit on a small ship with a decent computer . We get a sabotage and go for bases at Kalis.



Note, there was NO sense inciting anymore, they'd just go into revolution rather than getting hurt by it. The bugs have 3-4 turns worth of life left because of planets they are going to resettle, mainly because I got to sloppy to prevent it.

2534 - We arrive at their last established planet, Kalis



BC IX hits. We start on this.



We settle Laan because we can. We rewaste Iranha, and Proteus, then we Zap Kalis. This leaves them Nyarl, Fieres, and ONE STINKING COLSHIP. It should just be 2 more turns now.

2535 - Fieras wasted by some neighborhood cruisers. Just one more resettlement to waste.

2536 - The final battle.





We settle Kholdan because we can. We settle Nyarl because we can too

Well, thats a wrap.

Up next: The postgame report.

[Maniac Marshall]

From the final save we see the following:

Here is a look at what is left of the once mighty Klackon fleet after it has been whittled down.



You can add 3 Cutlass and 1 Knight to that. That's what their fleet had on the final turn.

Here is a look at my fleet, just subtract 2 colony ships.



I probably let it get a little outdated near the end. It took several thousand bombers to be effective, but I built those while waiting for stingers and any reasonably sized computer to fit on a small, although, as I mentioned, this was probably The net effect of that was that it took a lot longer to win because I eventually put everyhing into building those bombers so I'd have enough to slag 40 bases, then I didn't have enough other ships to escort or play traffic cop on all the planets I'd glassed. The Merc boats and Graveton ships WERE effective in their role when I was making enough of them to keep good sized stacks, but they were pretty worthless at the end. The viper design was very effective also, and virtually indestructable because of the ship designs it was facing. The biggest problem was it lacked firepower. I can't even begin to count the number of times I killed thousands of dead in the watter smalls, but "lost the battle" because time ran out. This is one particular area where maybe I should have updated. I didn't think I'd got that much tech after I made that design, but checking at the end, I could have fit 12 Heavy Ion Cannons and a better battle computer on the same design, more than trippling its firepower. Still, for the most part, it did its job. It was usually able to kill the colships that were trying to resettle (yes, despite how many resettlements they DID make, I probably stoped 30 other attempts with a handful of these ships parked in orbit). The stinger boats were awesome. They were total glassmakers. Honestly, I'm sure I could have done a better job of preventing resettlements, but I definately lost foccus and interest at the end. I was expecting the Klackons to put up a strong fight, and when it didn't happen, I sort of wandered into "just hurry up and get it over" mode. Like usual, when you try to hurry through things, especially when you stay up late to get it over with "tonite", you get sloppy and probably just end up taking longer.

A look at the Racial Status screen



shows we are STILL behind in fleet strength, though reasonably ahead in tech.

A final look at the map



Note that no one ever got beyond Controlled Dead environment.

A final look at the Economy.



Note I turned spying off several turns back when they got down to the 1 developed planet. It ran between 8 and 10% most of the game after I met the Kitties, and between 4 and 8% before that. Annother point that I got sloppy about is all that reserve fundage. I just got lazy about feeding my artifacts planet after it no longer really mattered.

Here is a look at the Techs I "acquired"













All in all a really enjoyable game, at least up to the point where I realized the win was pretty much a foregone conclusion and that I'd have a few hours ahead of "grinding out the win." Still, compared to some Civ games, it wasnt that much grinding.

The key moments in the game were stealing npg, which allowed me to build the fighters that saved Mobas and allowed me to recapture Xengara, and getting the Bears and Meklars to sign a peace treaty before they could (re)capture Xengara and break contact between me and the rest of the universe by doing so. The other key moment is when the Klackons showed up and were willing to trade me planetary shields. Once I was able to play for enough time to get sheilds and bases up at all my boarder colonies, I had a won game.

This was a really fun varient, and I'd encourage everyone to give it a try at some point. I think the map here and controlled tundra from the artifacts planet made it a lot easier than it otherwise could have been. I'd sort of played the races rather generically or even completely against character in the earlier imperia. This time, I was determined to play the race to its character at full throttle. As allways, thanks for the game, and I hope you enjoy the highly visual report.



-Maniac

[Maniac Marshall]

Some other things have been disappointing within MOO.... But mostly, I think it's my absence. My enthusiasm can be a powerful force, but I didn't keep it in place long enough for us to generate self-perpetuating momentum. I'm sorry about that...... Yeah, must have gotten lost in the mail.

Yes, some of the things within MOO ain't zactly perfect, but, is it any worse than any other game? In some areas, maybe a little. In some areas, it's still never been bettered. I'm not going to say I that MOO is a better game than Civ III, even though right now I'd much rather play MOO. Both have areas where they excell, and both have areas where you just kinda go :mad: .

Your enthusiasim, yes. But just as importantly, your excellent report writing. Make no mistake about it, your reports breathe life into these games. Not JUST yours, but some of the other excellent competitors here as well. Civ gave us great reports by, among others Sulla, T-Hawk, Urug, and CHARIS, just to name a scant few. MANY more wrote some good ones, but those are the ones I consistanly enjoyed over the months.

I've played many an epic that I never wrote a report for because "I didn't have time" or "It was too much work." Heck, I'd have won a couple of Epics beyond Epic 16 if I'd bothered to write the report. I would have "won" as recently as the Hittite Space Race Epic, which I played variented (not as extremely as Urugh, but close) and won by propagandaing an Aluminum city away from Babylon First time I'd EVER done that in Civ. I took like 40 pictures for that, but never wrote a report. I dono why.... or maybe I do.

When it comes right down to it, I'm not a great report writer. I'm just not really capable of creating the kind of reports that the great ones do. Maybe thats why I never reported many Civ games.

With MOO, however, I decided right away that I was going to report every game I played (excepting game 1 which wasnt started till about a week after it closed because of techincial -read in getting the game to run- issues that prevented me playing it until then. I do have my turn log and a few screenies of it, and I played it unspoiled, so I may actually report that one one of these days even though it "doesn't count") because I expected the turnout for the IMP to be much less than for the Epics and figured it was sort of my duty to do whatever I could to help it get off the ground.

As far as you not keeping yourself in the forefront long enough.... It happens. I know from personal experience. I spent several years running a large internet card game league. When I "left" with burnout and RL issues, it gradually droped off, to the point it barely exists today. There are times I feel like I've let people down by "going away", even though I left what I thought were capable people in charge of it, and never TOTALLY dissappeared. Everyone there tells me that I shouldn't feel guilty, even though sometimes I still do. But the truth of it is that, at the end of the day, these are games. Real Life issues are what matters. You take care of those first, and then do your best to uphold your obligations in this arena after that. I'm sure you know this allready, but, hey, it never hurts to hear it again right?

I'm betting that my email addy looked like spam and got deleted. I changed my email for the board AFTER I sent it too. The new one is slightly more... oviously me

Anyway, thanks for all you do, which is more than most would.

-Maniac

[Maniac Marshall]

I'm glad you enjoyed the report. It was a rather easy map I feel. Kind of the opposite of Imp 1, this was the easy side of Hard.

Still, Factoid really got screwed by it though, but then early council losses can happen on almost any large map given the proper circumstances.

I was REALLY dissappointed in the Klackon AI. I wish they'd built good missile boats instead of those lame bombers. Those nuke boats were some of the worst I'd seen in ages too. The AI just doesn't use bombers the way it should.

I kind of wish now I'd gotten hand lasers or someting from that Artifacts planet. Still, the early game DID provide the kind of struggle I was looking for, and there is no telling what would have happened if the bears hand't been stupid enough to make peace right before recapturing Xengara, so, on the whole, the game did not dissappoint.

-Maniac

[Maniac Marshall]

For the most part, I really can't see that you did anything wrong. Not building Large LR Laser ships isnt a big thing to me. I rarely do that. I prefer to just build a few medium LR Lasers unless it's an absolutely critical planet, and it wasn't immediately obvious that Xengara was a critical planet.

Sucking up to the Alkiri = not a bad idea. Lately I've been doing less of this myself after seeing just how sillily easy this can make games (read my Imperium 2 report and note that that DOES work on impossible too), but in this case, I couldn't blame anyone for doing just that.

I generally don't research Neuclear Engines unless its a Huge map, I have Range 5 allready, and I want them for colony ships and scouts. Of course, If I don't get warp 3 or 4 engines, I go back for them. I just don't think they are very useful for attack fleets, much too slow for my tastes, and they rarely help in point defense squadrons. Others may disagree with me, but I think that 90% of the time, this is a "red hering" tech. Sub-Light Drives or Fusion Drives (especially when combined with stabelizer on fusion bombers) is the real way to go. There deffinately ARE exceptions however.

About keeping population low... I've seen people swear that being 3rd in pop is the way to go. Some people do really well with that. It's not my cup of tea though. I don't think I could personally play that way successfully.

While #4 can be effective, its easier just to buy friends and that works for all races, not just the Darloks. I don't think its wrong to buy a friend if it means avoiding early diplo loss, or getting a critical war ally. I'm of 2 minds about asking for war declarations on races you arent allready at war with though. It's effective as all hell, can easily win the vote for you in most cases, but its also pretty cheap....

Thats my 2 cents worth. Really tough luck on the loss is my main thought though.

-Maniac

[Factoid]

For the most part, I really can't see that you did anything wrong. (...) It wasn't immediately obvious that Xengara was a critical planet.

Hi Maniac,

Our games went fairly parallel for quite a long time, despite the interesting limitations you set on yourself. The north is always going to be open and Xengara is as far as you (or I) could hope to expand to the west, early on.

The only way to lose this game is to lose an early council vote, and I left myself wide open for that. The strength of the Darloks is completely related to being in diplomatic contact with (ie spying on) lots of races. I habitually drop into "sullen isolationist" mode, where I ignore the diplomatic options. I'll sign trade agreements and NAPs and hide spies for tech reports, but don't ally, spy, trade tech or offer tribute. Xengara did turn out to give early contact with the Meklars and Mrrshans.

I generally don't research Neuclear Engines unless its a Huge map, I have Range 5 allready, and I want them for colony ships and scouts. Of course, If I don't get warp 3 or 4 engines, I go back for them.

Range 6 vs Nuclear engines is an interesting call. Range 4 clearly isn't good enough, and Darloks need the extended range for diplomatic contact as above. Nuclear engines cost is less than half Range 6 to research, so give a quick read on whether Sub-light drives are available or not.

Given Range 4 and 6 and Nuclear engines available as in this game and that "Sub-light available" may also mean that Range 7 is available (Sub-light drives or Range 7 or both MUST be available of course) -

1. Nuclear engines first, Sub-light available -- Range 4 -> Nuclear engines -> Range 6 -> Sub-light drives -> TL16-20
   
2. Nuclear engines first, Sub-light not available -- Range 4 -> Nuclear Engines -> Range 7 -> TL16-20
   
3. Range 6 first, Sub-light not available -- Range 4 -> Range 6 -> Nuclear engines -> Range 7 -> TL16-20
   
4. Range 6 first, Sub-light available -- Range 4 -> Range 6 -> Sub-light drives -> TL16-20

(a) was what I was hoping for. I strongly agree with you that Sub-light drives are far better than Nuclear engines since I hate Warp speed 1 transports, but I like getting combat speed 2 ASAP for early defense. Being the Darloks with goodish ability to pick up missing techs adds another twist.

I have blown hot and cold over Nuclear engines in the past. I think all in all you are right. Range 6 is more important than Nuclear engines, even more so with Range 5 missing (but a bit less so for Darloks, Alkaris and Psilons - cheap Propulsion research or spying). The size of the galaxy, difficulty level and opposing races also have some influence, yay Moo1 for not being a formulaic game.

About keeping population low... I've seen people swear that being 3rd in pop is the way to go. Some people do really well with that. It's not my cup of tea though. I don't think I could personally play that way successfully.

I think it would be hard in the present case, where I didn't have much diplomatic contact and didn't know when the first council meeting would be. Population in transports doesn't show in racial stats and also doesn't count for council votes (I just checked and confirmed this for myself), so I could shuffle population around (eg half Nazin -> Guradas, half Guradas -> Nazin) but that is just too abusive. I guess I could *not* send population to new planets, but the whole idea of not developing smoothly and efficiently runs counter to my personal enjoyment of Moo1 - I LIKE developing smoothly and efficiently (but try not to micromanage).

In Imperium 4 I deliberately went for the Sssla and avoided taking/glassing Silicoid planets (and hence moving into second place) until after the 2774 Council vote but that was minor. The Silicoids were attacking me but I felt strategically justified in destroying the weaker Sssla first anyway.

While #4 [espionage framing] can be effective, its easier just to buy friends and that works for all races, not just the Darloks. I don't think its wrong to buy a friend if it means avoiding early diplo loss, or getting a critical war ally. I'm of 2 minds about asking for war declarations on races you arent allready at war with though. It's effective as all hell, can easily win the vote for you in most cases, but its also pretty cheap....

Agreed on third-party war declarations when I stay out of the war. I am starting to shun some tactics/exploits I personally think are, ah, unneccessarily advantageous, but don't mind if others use them (I'm also inconsistent so can't look down on others anyway). As I get more experienced I will probably restrict myself as you and others do, to keep challenge and enjoyment up.

Thats my 2 cents worth. Really tough luck on the loss is my main thought though.

-Maniac

Thanks for the sentiment, as I said I left myself open to the loss so I don't feel too hard done by.

- Factoid.