[SPOILERS] scooter's thread: The Honorable French

[scooter]

Ok, only one real interesting piece of diplo work for this phase. Bigger told me he was going to do this before the last deadline, but he sent out this email to everyone in the game after the deadline:

I was gonna wait until retreats were finished to send this out, but Molach is apparently taking his time, and it doesn't really matter.

I am going to be dead soon, obviously. I had turned over my remaining units to Rowain, with the intention of holding the line vs. France and letting Rowain take Germany provinces whenever he wanted to. Not because I particularly had a grudge against France, but I couldnt fight a two front war, had no real hope of allies helping me survive - so I figured it was better for the integrity of the game to fight the person that had stabbed me. I figured it was obvious to Rowain this would heavily benefit him, since I could hold the line (with a tiny bit of help from him) with France indefinitely, giving him time to either A) build up his forces, take me out, then push against France or B) leave the stalemate and try and get 18 cores from Turkey and Italy. Frankly, I didn't really care which - just wanted to keep France out of Germany.

Apparently, Rowain has decided it is in his interests to turn over all of Germany to France, rather than keep that power for himself. I guess he is so impressed by Scooter's amazing diplomacy skills he would rather placate and hope scooter doesnt attack him than control some power of him that would prevent Scooter from doing any damage. How did Chamberlain come to rule Russia? Anyway, that seems like a really, really bad mistake to me - but God knows I've made plenty this game, so that's enough of that.

so here where I'm at now. I have 3 units this fall that have nothing really to do (A in BER, BOH, and N in HEL). I don't really feel like fighting for a scrap of land just so I can possibly outlive Molach in this game, I'd rather go out with a bang. so I'm turning all 3 of them into mercenaries. I'll throw this out to all 5 remaining countries - convince me I should let you control them, and I will. You can use whatever currency you think will work - entertainment, loyalty, revenge fantasies, IOU's, whatever. Whoever makes the best argument will get control over 1 or all of the units. If by some miracle I still control a territory next year, I'll make the same offer.

I'm going to decide in about 36 hours (wednesday morning CST time). I may or may not decide to tell you you've won. Good luck

I poked Mattimeo about putting together a grand proposal, but we don't see a good way to tie that into a big Rowain stab or anything. However, it would be fun to screw Rowain out of Denmark as retribution for the times he's screwed me thus far. I got this message this morning from Bigger:

im a little sad you're not trying to win me over with my mercenary offer

Finally got a chance to sit down and work on this, so this is what I sent him:

Ok, here's the thing. It'd be nice to hire you as a mercenary to mess with Rowain, but I'm not sure what can be done with just 1 turn. And to be honest, I'm nervous about taking you up on any big offer because I don't want to see you leverage it to stab me . I know, paranoia again, but it's the name of the game I guess. I do have a suggestion though. Support Nth-Den. So this is the part where I make my case.

Rowain has pissed everyone off at one point or another, and I believe he should be punished for it. Everyone has been punished for their misdeeds so far to some extent or another. You stabbed Rowain for 1 center, and that added to the chain effect that got you stabbed. I stabbed you, and I got punished by having to face a dual defense of you + Rowain all the while Rowain was getting free centers from you for all my work. Rowain has also apparently screwed with Turkey a few times by conveniently "not mentioning" certain things. Point is - he's the only person to not really face repercussions yet for lying and stabbing. His stabs have been subtle, but they've been real. He "stabbed" me by first promising he wouldn't slow me down on your centers, and then of course he moved in. Then he promised he would support me into Munich, then he again backed out on his word by continuing to support you. Then he demanded I give him Denmark in order to get him to stop supporting you AND wanted a 1 year rental of Berlin (no way he intends to give this back as he says). I agreed on condition he helps me into Munich, but once again he refused to do so - thankfully it didn't matter.

That's not even to mention the fact that he stabbed you by up and stopping his support of you, and I'm guessing he gave you no warning either. Shocking. Point is, he's been promising both of us stuff against each other and he's lied and backed out of deals to both of us. He hasn't been punished for this, and I think 1/2 a year of helping me is a nice token of your (lack of) appreciation towards him. You've defended hard and well against me, disbanding anything close to Rowain so you could better slow me down. I don't blame you even slightly - you've done a very good job of making me pay for my stab by slowing me down by a lot. Point is, I think you've paid that "debt" of needing to make me pay for my stab in full, but you haven't gotten some retribution against Rowain yet. So why not do that now? I know my stab was much more harmful to you than his, but you've been working against me for much longer than 1/2 a year, so I think it's a good "punishment fits the crime" in that respect.

Alright, that's my sales pitch. The only thing I'd *really* like is Hel to support Nth-Den. If you want suggestions for what to do with Berlin + Bohemia I'd suggest Ber-Sil wit Boh support, but I'm more ambivalent on that front because there's not much that can be done to seriously hurt Rowain on that front in one fall turn.

Then I sent a quick follow-up email:

One more thing I'll add. If you want a "do it for the ratings!!!" reason, hurting Rowain will most certainly help the ratings. Basically, if you use it to hurt me and Rowain grabs and keeps Berlin + Denmark, we are goign to end in a 3-way draw. That's dull and boring, and it's been obvious for quite some time that we were headed that way. If you throw out one last "screw you!" to Rowain, I can set up an exciting endgame where Turkey and I race to conquer Rowain and get to 18. And before you think I'd obviously win that, you should know Turkey will probably have to get all 3 Italian home centers for him to agree, so it'd actually be very close. That's much more exciting than F, R, and T settling on stalemate lines and then calling it. And when you're dead, I'll even let you have backstage access to upcoming plans if you want.

Alright, THAT'S the end of my sales pitch. I'll be mostly around today, so grab me if you want to talk.

Under the circumstances, I think this is a pretty good sales pitch. Good chance he doesn't go for it, but I still think it will be attractive to him. We'll see.

[scooter]

waterbat: nice pitch
me: think Bigger will approve?
waterbat: you are in sole possession of first place in the pitch Bigger contest (at least as far as I can tell)

Cool.

(No I'm NOT giving a TL;DR for this chat )

[scooter]

Well, Bigger decided to help me. So this is the turn I get revenge on Rowain for going back on his word several times and threatening me and all that stuff. If he gets upset, I'll just remind him of this chat he sent me when I pressed him on why he wasn't keeping his word and helping me into Munich:

Rowain: yes but this a market in constant flux. Germany is promising heaven, roses and unknown pleasures if I make sure there will never be a French unit in his homecenters

Well... This is a market in constant flux. Germany is promising heaven, roses, and unknown pleasures if I make sure there will never be a Russian unit in his homecenters.

Now, let's hope this grand plan of revenge isn't sabotaged by a double-dealing Bigger. I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

[pindicator]

Hey, at least the ratings are going up

[scooter]

Ok then. Plus 3 for me. Definitely 2 fleets - no question. Unfortunately one will need to stay south to set up the water stalemate, but that's fine. I get this sick feeling that this solo attempt will go down in flames, but for now, it's still possible to solo. I just fear Mattimeo will get too anxious about the number of centers I have. Not sure how I can prevent that - it'll take some work. I do think it's closer than it looks though, because Rowain will be focused on me which will make Mattimeo's stab stronger and more devastating when it actually happens. So he'll catch up.

All I really need to do now to prevent collapse is take and hold Berlin. I'll now have sufficient units for a stalemate in the Med. Taking Berlin and holding it stalemates that front to Switzerland. Piedmont could potentially be vulnerable, but I think that can be managed either by setting up DMZ's or setting up units there.

That would just leave the northern theater where I don't yet have control over the waters with 2 English centers still to go down (including the very awkward Lvp) and Nwy/Swe + Russian inevitable F Stp will be challenging to displace. But at the very least, I think I'm nearly able to prevent a total collapse, so perhaps I should worry less and just go for it.

I'm mildly tempted to skip my 3rd build and just build 2 fleets, saving myself a F Bre build for next year in case I get no centers. I don't really need many more armies, but I need several more fleets. Need to think about this.

[scooter]

Hey, at least the ratings are going up

Yeah, well we're definitely in the middle of the most exciting phase of the game, so that definitely helps. It also helps when you have players willing to stab. I did fear that the presence of several "new"-ish players would cause deadlock from refusals to stab, but we've seen several stabs and many stab considerations. It's been fun. The only thing is the slow pace of the game can make it hard to keep the diplomatic "throttle" down and that's nearly come back to bite me a few times, but it's worked out okay.

[T-hawk]

That would just leave the northern theater where I don't yet have control over the waters with 2 English centers still to go down (including the very awkward Lvp)

Yeah, I noticed that a few turns ago. For a nation that was supposed to be weak and doomed, England sure has hung around for a long time with two-thirds of his centers still left.

[scooter]

Yeah, I noticed that a few turns ago. For a nation that was supposed to be weak and doomed, England sure has hung around for a long time with two-thirds of his centers still left.

Yep, England is a pain to kill. Part of this is because he agreed to help me so I'm honoring the deal and keeping him alive until Germany is dead, but his capture of Lvp is a pain because anything capturing it will be badly out of position.

Scooter I feel sorry to say that you failed the test.

From now on Russia will be at total war with France till either France or Turkey rule Europe.

And this is just rich.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, Rowain has a unique outlook. I mean I don't begrudge how he's played but I don't see how subtle manipulation and dishonesty is any worse than outright. Its diplomacy - people mislead, deceive and lie. There's no actual way for the game to be played otherwise and have a winner.

Well played to this point though. While I'd say the most likely outcome is still a draw, you've done everything you can to make it interesting.

[scooter]

Yeah, Rowain has a unique outlook. I mean I don't begrudge how he's played but I don't see how subtle manipulation and dishonesty is any worse than outright. Its diplomacy - people mislead, deceive and lie. There's no actual way for the game to be played otherwise and have a winner.

Well played to this point though. While I'd say the most likely outcome is still a draw, you've done everything you can to make it interesting.

Yeah, like you said I'm fine with how he's played and I don't hold it against him, but I do think that unless he's playing it up in the Org thread (very possible), he's kinda crazy for acting like a victim here. He says I "failed the test" - but if that's the measuring stick for failing the test, then he's failed the test for me 2-3 times so far and once for Bigger and Mattimeo each. I even explicitly warned him that if he didn't follow through on his deals that I would act accordingly... And he didn't, so I acted accordingly. Fun game, quite a few tense turns as I waited for Gamestate threads to be updated.

Thanks. Yeah, Turkey may very well see the situation, Rowain's reaction, and my closeness to a solo and change his mind and try to intervene. I'm pretty sure I can handle that though as it should be easy to statemate him given what I have now, so I think I'm safe. But yes, a draw is still most likely outcome here. I need to conquer Nwy, Swe, Stp, and Berlin (and obviously finish English Isles) in order to solo, and getting all 4 will not be easy.