Third time's the charm - Mardoc plays the Pirates [SPOILER]

[Mardoc]

So, Svensgaard is just like Falamar, right?

[Bigger]

ded-lurker reporting for duty.

I don't play FFH, so your joke fails on me .

I guess we're going to have a lot of sea bases though What made you pick Svensgaard?

edit: sad to say, my dedlurk may be mostly moral support. I'll play plenty of attention though - so I can learn the game, hehe. Maybe I'll spend a few hours reading PBEM1 so I can pick up some tips.

[Mardoc]

I guess we're going to have a lot of sea bases though What made you pick Svensgaard?

Most just wanted to try something new and different. Extremely different. It's not like I'll know what I'm doing anyway in the first game.

edit: sad to say, my dedlurk may be mostly moral support. I'll play plenty of attention though - so I can learn the game, hehe. Maybe I'll spend a few hours reading PBEM1 so I can pick up some tips.

Hey, you'll at least be useful on the questions like 'do I fight or give in'? And I think the Pirates are fairly straightforward all in all. I just don't know if they're any good!

Anyway, a first brainstorm strategy post is coming up shortly.

[Mardoc]

So, I've now played parts of four Planetfall games, including about 30 turns of a Pirate game, and lurked the PBEM1 threads. That makes me an expert, no?

Ok, so I've still got very little idea what I'm doing. But I think I'm grounded enough to have a vague idea, anyway. What do the Pirates have going for them? As best I can tell, it's a short list, with wide-ranging implications.

• Pirates start with 2 SEA colony pods, 4 aquaformers
  
• Shelf and Ocean tiles produce extra
  
• Pillaging is worth 50% more. And apparently beakers, as well
  
• Pirate units can steal promotions from units they defeat
  

What's it mean? Well, my first two cities at minimum have to be ocean cities. We want Algaculture first thing, for Kelp and the ability to build more sea colony pods. And we probably want to run Biodomed, since it boosts Kelp and makes water units invisible. We start with a moat, as well. Anyone who wants to fight us needs to build a navy, which is of strictly limited use against anyone else. And our territories aren't going to be very valuable to conquer, not compared to land-bound folk.

On a larger scale - ocean is as valuable to us as land. It's more valuable to us than it is to anyone else, certainly. And we get a head start. Assuming we beeline Algaculture, we should have three sea colonies founded before anyone else has one.

We'll want Kelp nearly everywhere, for +1 food/+1 energy (another +1 energy after bioreactors are built). But that means hammers will be tricky to come by, while food is out the wazoo. Probably argues for more REX, to spend the food on colony pods rather than just throwing it away. Fortunately the best REX civic is at a tech we want early anyway, Biofuel.

What else...resources will be hard to come by, unless we claim some land. Either directly, with some land colonies, or just making sure to put sea colonies near islands with goodies on them. So we'll need a mix of land and sea colonies. Or maaybe by trading sea-exclusives for land resources. Which makes keeping happy, healthy, and planetfriendly a bit more a challenge.

And Bob's right, fighting Planet is a heck of a lot harder in the ocean than on land. Primarily because everything's faster, but also because most of it's unclaimed. A land terraformer can completely clear his own territory, all the way to the coast, and just defend the border he shares with the Planet-huggers. Sea terraformer, not so much. Plus of course without Farms, sea terraforming is much less valuable anyway. Oh, yeah, one more thing - land worms are Str 3/2 in Psi combat. Ocean worms are Str 3/3.

So all things considered, I'm thinking the plan is to mostly ignore our cool pillaging abilities, and just REX. At least early. There's a huge amount of space that no one else will want early, we've got the moat to keep us safe from siege tank/genites/anything else conventional.

But, we want a fairly Planet-friendly strategy. We'll want to be Biodomed rather than Hybrid, true...but we can't afford to fight Isles and sealurks all game long. Would slow down REX, for one thing . Given that only Mining Platforms piss off Planet, Kelp doesn't, we pretty much just need to grab a few +Planet resources and make sure to settle near the fungus during our REX. And build a lot of bases instead of big bases.

More tomorrow. Hopefully.

[HidingKneel]

Dedlurker checking in.

Standard disclaimer: I know next to nothing about this game. That said, I like the planet-friendly pirates plan. Seabound native life seems very strong; if you prioritize capturing it, you could use it to dominate the ocean.

Pods are off, right?

[Bigger]

we will build some mining platforms, no?

I must admit that was my aversion to the pirates in smac, the low mineral output (actually that was my aversion to sea bases in general, the pirates at least got the +1 minerals on platforms).. but I pretty much based my economy on minerals (forest spam + supply crawlers on mines in rocky squares)...

but this is a different game, and sven always was fun because he was so damn different . I like the rex, planet friendly strategy. I also hope we get a chance to load up a bunch of troops in some transports and drop them (surprise) in a coastal area that a human player thought was safe .

It occurs to me that just the fact that we are the pirates will make the land dwelling folk build a larger navy than they would prefer, slowing down their growth. So thats good . and if they don't we can punish them for it.

[Mardoc]

Dedlurker checking in.

Standard disclaimer: I know next to nothing about this game. That said, I like the planet-friendly pirates plan. Seabound native life seems very strong; if you prioritize capturing it, you could use it to dominate the ocean.

Pods are off, right?

Welcome aboard! Yeah, I think we're at similar knowledge levels. We'll all be learning. And also yes, I'm trying and failing to see something more powerful than captured life. Although it can't benefit from Biodomed, while standard ships can...

Yes, pods are off for this one. In retrospect, that'll nerf us more than most others, but we'll figure something out.

we will build some mining platforms, no?

Certainly, once we make it to Doctrine: Initiative. They're only worth -0.5 Planet, so one Biology Lab = 4 Mining Platforms. The main way(s) to piss off Planet aren't the mines, it's the population to work them and farms. Well, farms are unnecessary for the most part. Population...is a whole different story. But there are enough ways to make Planet happy if you push for it.

It's just that's still a thousand beakers away, and we probably can't afford to beeline for it. Still - I'm glad you mentioned it. I had previously thought mining platforms required Trench, which is pretty rare. In fact it's the opposite, they can be built anywhere that's not a trench. And they're always +2 hammers, not the land-based mines' 1-2, depending on circumstances. I'm much less worried than I was.

but this is a different game, and sven always was fun because he was so damn different . I like the rex, planet friendly strategy. I also hope we get a chance to load up a bunch of troops in some transports and drop them (surprise) in a coastal area that a human player thought was safe .

It occurs to me that just the fact that we are the pirates will make the land dwelling folk build a larger navy than they would prefer, slowing down their growth. So thats good . and if they don't we can punish them for it.

So, that's the very coolest part about the Biodomed civic. Once we make it to the Magnetic Propulsion tech, which is along the navy path anyway, all our new ships get Stealth for free. Combine that with typical speeds of 4-5 tiles/turn, and the ability to make them hidden nationality, and we'll be able to have some fun!

Anyway, we've a turn already.

Here's our start:


First things first, put Deep Radar onto a pair of the gun foils and send them scouting!



Oh, my. I'm not sure just how much editing spellman did for us, but this looks lovely! A nice solid trench for early hammers, fairly easy access to a pair of Planet-boosting resources (the artifact and the monolith) plus two more that we'll get with time (the Planet Pearls and the Brilliance).

Next up: revolting into Biodomed. I know we don't get the benefits just yet, but we'll be having them soon enough. And this turn we're unlikely to have both cities settled, so it's the best time for anarchy.

Next question, tech path. I think it's probably going to be Algaculture:

followed by Archeology:

but if either of you sees an alternative I'm missing that would be worthwhile, do speak up. I just don't see anything better than gaining the ability to plant Kelp just yet; it's also en route to most of the naval techs. And then Archeology mainly for the monolith/artifact.

Next question: where do we plant our settlements? My first gut says these two:


What's my reasoning? C1 is straightforward - claim a bunch of these resources. These are pretty much all resources that give energy bonuses, which ought to help us get to a roaring start and satisfy Planet soonish. And they can be improved now, and worked, we just don't get the benefit of the resource itself until later.

In addition, they all pretty much require Marine Lab or sea mills, stuff we can build already.

C2? Well - it's close because I like to found 2nd cities close, and because we're not allowed to found on the trench. It's close enough to the mainland to pick up the Monolith eventually - about the time we've a Former and Archeology, I suspect. It's less impressive of a site, granted, although it does have a lot of hammer potential. I can see an argument for moving it elsewhere; perhaps 1W for more sea tiles and few land ones, or maybe even to wait for next turn's scouting reports. Actually, I'm tempted to promote the other foil Deep Radar as well, and send them around the peninsula to the south...hang on a sec, let me just do that...


Nope, no hidden prizes.

Anyway, yeah. T1 is a big enough debate that I'll wait a while before founding anything, in case I'm missing something obvious. Hope one or both of you are around!

[Bigger]

well c1 seems pretty obvious. I don't really know what the resource bubbles signify but I'm going to assume that resources are good, and we have 4 of them there.

and monoliths are really good right? so we can't move c2 west, that would remove the monolith from the BFC. I think our only other choice is 1E - but probably more ocean shelf squares and less land ridges is better for us.

unlike you, I don't normally like to cramp my bases togethor.. but it seems this game punishes you (via planet being angry) for vertical growth, so more compact bases are very sensible. And in this case, I don't really see another option anyway.

All that is to say: I agree with your spots.

[Mardoc]

well c1 seems pretty obvious. I don't really know what the resource bubbles signify but I'm going to assume that resources are good, and we have 4 of them there.

Plus an energy bonus. Which is possibly the best of the lot, for the moment.

Southwest of the sign is an Alien Artifact. Currently 2/0/1, becomes 2/0/5 with a field lab. Unlocked resource at Archeology, for +1 happy per city (err, not +1 planet as I previously said). 2 E of that is an Energy bonus tile, currently 1/0/4. With a Sea Mill, it'll become 1/0/8. North of that, the pile of pink powder, is Brilliance. 2/0/2, becomes 2/0/6 with Field Lab. Resource unlocked at Psionics, which is a good ways down the tree, worth +1 Planet and +1 happy to Empath Guilds. Next in line, the 'gems' tile is in Planetfall Crystals. 1/1/1 now, 1/2/4 with a Mine, resource unlocked at Planetary Networks (2 techs deeper than we currently know) for +1 happy. Finally the whiteish thing to the north is Planet Pearls, 2/1/1 now, 2/1/5 with a marine lab, resource unlocked at Psionics again for +1 Planet.

So, what's it mean? Our capital will be a commerce monster, but almost none of the resources benefit us now, or will for a while, beyond their tile yields. Of course, commerce monster is still quite handy, especially when we can buy ourselves another free colony pod by researching Algaculture, which we want anyway.

and monoliths are really good right? so we can't move c2 west, that would remove the monolith from the BFC. I think our only other choice is 1E - but probably more ocean shelf squares and less land ridges is better for us.

Monoliths are decent tiles, I wouldn't call them 'really' good. That tile, when improved, will be a 3/1/2 tile. In other words - as good as a Kelp farm . But we definitely want it improved and in our culture, it's a +1 Planet resource (aka each base gets +1 Planet rating).

unlike you, I don't normally like to cramp my bases togethor.. but it seems this game punishes you (via planet being angry) for vertical growth, so more compact bases are very sensible. And in this case, I don't really see another option anyway.

Yes, that's the main reason I'm thinking tight-packed cities. With a side of - every base gets a free specialist in Planetfall. Plus, early, our happy and healthy caps will be tiny - I expect the capital to have a happy cap of 5 and healthy cap of 2-3; the northern one might have decent health since it's got little fungus, but it's still not going to be doing a lot of growing

[Selrahc]

With a side of - every base gets a free specialist in Planetfall.

Although bases don't generate commerce by default which mostly negates it. I guess a lot of your sea bases will be founded on coast tiles though, for an inherent 2 commerce city centre tile.

It's just that's still a thousand beakers away, and we probably can't afford to beeline for it. Still - I'm glad you mentioned it. I had previously thought mining platforms required Trench, which is pretty rare. In fact it's the opposite, they can be built anywhere that's not a trench. And they're always +2 hammers, not the land-based mines' 1-2, depending on circumstances. I'm much less worried than I was.

Are you sure on that? I'm pretty sure I had mining platforms built in the trenches.