October 22nd, 2012, 00:16
(This post was last modified: October 22nd, 2012, 00:18 by Catwalk.)
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That lake fish is such a tease. I'd say it's worth getting it. Very nice commerce capital, 8 river cottages + river sheep + lake fish.
* You can pick one of FIN, EXP, ORG, India, Inca
* If you pick one of the above, then you cannot pick SPI, PHI, IND, CRE, dutch, viking
If originality is not an issue, I'd say FIN/IMP or FIN/CHA look very appealing.
October 22nd, 2012, 07:05
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(October 22nd, 2012, 00:16)Catwalk Wrote: That lake fish is such a tease. I'd say it's worth getting it. Very nice commerce capital, 8 river cottages + river sheep + lake fish.
* You can pick one of FIN, EXP, ORG, India, Inca
* If you pick one of the above, then you cannot pick SPI, PHI, IND, CRE, dutch, viking
If originality is not an issue, I'd say FIN/IMP or FIN/CHA look very appealing.
Amusingly enough, the two leaders I've already played in MP BTS games are Victoria and Hannibal, FIN/IMP and FIN/CHA. :P
I'll have to think long and hard about this start. Thing is, it reminds me of that one other game that had lake fish, where Serdoa, mackoti and Plako were playing. Everyone went for a fishing opening and it pay-off beautifuly.
So, we'd need a civ that starts with fishing, most likely, since getting a WB ready by working the plains hill seems desirable. Losing the plains hill settle is annoying, but it'll start being compensated as soon as we are working the fish instead of the corn (1 more food, two/three more commerce).
We'll see.
October 22nd, 2012, 08:34
(This post was last modified: October 22nd, 2012, 08:36 by Ichabod.)
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Rome would be a very interesting pick here. Shaka or Ragnar of Rome, maybe even Hannibal or Washington of Rome could work pretty well. Considering mirrored starts, I bet Rome will be a top pick.
And with Rome being a top pick, Carthage would be a top pick too. Good counter to Praetorians, good starting techs, good UB for the setup. Washington of Carthage would be very, very nice. Expansive for fast cothons, charismatic for buffed cavalry units.
October 22nd, 2012, 09:11
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Julius Ceasar could also be a good pick based on the new info by Commodore. This is a pretty good IMP start, sheep mine is 7 production for a settler and there's a non-forest plains hill too (6 production). ORG would balance tings out in terms of costs + the useful double speed buildings. Maybe combining him with a courthouse replacement civ... No, that wouldn't work, due to no fishing start...
All in all, I'm pretty with the start and the settings, lots and lots of interesting options.
October 22nd, 2012, 15:05
(This post was last modified: October 22nd, 2012, 15:06 by Ichabod.)
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Intro post is updated. It'll be regularly updated until I review all my past games.
(October 22nd, 2012, 13:56)SevenSpirits Wrote: Pindicator asked for my opinion on setup rules, so here's something I believe is pretty fair. I realize it's on the complex end.
You can have 5 points.
4: FIN
3: EXP, ORG, India, Inca
2: SPI, IND, CRE, Vikings, Dutch
1: PHI, Holy Rome, All other Agriculture civs
0: IMP, CHA, AGG, PRO, All other civs
Note, if you guys are banning some early wonders, IND should drop to 1.
My initial take on it:
*India and Inca are difficult choices. I'd need a pretty average leader to have one of them. Maybe IND/CHA India and trying to get stonehenge could work. Then go for a wonder based economy? The difficulty would be to keep the economy afloat. IND/IMP India could also work, I guess. Anyway, those are difficult combinations. Settling in place could work, if that was the case (the fish is "unlighthouseable" as far as I know, so a later city could net it for the capital), but only unirrigated corn and plains hill sheep make things unappealing for a settling in place strategy. if only I had another grain...
Inca without expansive is even less appealing. The traits I could pair with Inca aren't nearly as sinnergistic as the ones with India and that's with the ones with india already not being that good.
*Mining + Fishing civs seems extra powered in this setup, due to no score points, allowing for great trait pairing. ORG/IND or EXP/IND (considering no lighthouse in the capital possible) + fishing/mining are the quickest GLHouse possible. ORG/CRE and EXP/CRE allows for a lot of cheap buildings and are very good traits.
++ for Rome and Carthage. Could the Cotton be meaningful? In a map with blockades on, getting the Astro line quick might be good (read, might be necessary), so I guess it'd come online earlier. 50 hammers (EXP cotton) for a trade route + more valuable trade routes is worth it? Would anyone open borders with me if I already had the GLHouse?
My head is certainly spinning, both from the start picture and the leader/civ choices. I looked at the openings in PBEM 25 Vets, where the map also had lake fish and the players that did very well in the early game went WB first, in a similar start (no corn and plains hill settle near the lake, though). Should I do it here? Should I build it stuck at size 1 with the plains hill or opening with BW and whipping it into a worker after growing on the lake fish? Or do the easy improvable corn and the lack of a plains hill settle change things, making worker first better? The corn positioning (1 worker turn loss if settled near fish) and the fact that it's unirrigated seems to make a worker first opening + WB chopping not that good. Or am I being dumb?
Goddamit!! Get out of my head already!!!!
October 23rd, 2012, 09:09
(This post was last modified: October 23rd, 2012, 09:12 by Ichabod.)
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Well, i kind of like my position in the snake pick. It's good to be second in turn order and I can get a look at my opponents picks before thinking of mine.
If anyone thinks that is not spoilery, I'd like to hear some opinions about my start. Do you think fishing/settling near the lake is a must here? Can a in place/agri start compare to it in terms of speed?
For now, I liked my opening of going Fishing/Mining -> BW from start, build worker working fish (if not expansive), go to the plains hill forest and chop it into a work boat (micro to finish when chop arrives by working hammer tiles). Then worker build a mine while waiting for Agri. i reach size 2 when the mine is ready and can build settler or worker with plains hill + fish while farming the corn.
How about De Gaulle of India and settle in place? Farm the corn and mine the sheep while going Agri -> BW? Capital would be yucky until I could settle and auxiliary city to net the fish (and work cottages)...
October 23rd, 2012, 09:20
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Yup, people are going for fishing + mining! Scooter will go for Expanisve Carthage, I'm sure of it. My bet is Sury of Carthage.
Damn, that was a nice pick... If rome gets picked too, fishing + mining start starts sounding a bit too difficult. Maybe Industrial India and settle in place good be a nice counter, with all wonders avaiable. So, IND/CHA or IND/IMP? IND/IMP for some quick following cities or IND/CHA for bigger cities + sinnergy with obviously ours Stonehenge?
Could Spiritual or Creative work? CRE/IMP (CRE/CHA doesn't exist), maybe... SPI/IMP, SPI/CHA...
I think I'll go IND/CHA India, because with high maintanance, the extra oomph from the 2 more cappy cap will be nice (and CHA is a good water trait, isn't it?). The only thing holding me back is that this is a good IMP start. Well, not that good if I settle on the initial plains hill, due to not being able to forgo BW for long.
October 23rd, 2012, 11:18
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IND/IMP India could settle in place, open with worker, farm corn (while building settler at hammer heavy tile - likely sheep), grow when corn farmed, settler continued at size 2 (corn + mined hill sheep) -> Worker chop into settler the plains hill forest. When settler ready, settle near fish + chop with worker for WB.
Tech would go Agri -> BW -> Fish (Wheel -> Pottery afterwards?)
It's a very quick opening... Worth it?
If only the corn was riverside/irrigated, I wouldn't be so fixxated in Mining + Fishing opening.
IND/CHA India could also do it, a bit slower, though.
In the other hand, if I get Rome, which will also have a great start, I could go with EXP/CRE and a lot of killer combos. I could even go Ragnar of Rome, in what is really a killer start for Rome.
Why am I so fixated with Industrious? What about ORG/IND of Rome and yell to everyone: GLHouse is mine, go away. Important to remember that the map is no longer in Monarch difficulty, like previously said, but Prince, so maybe EXP/IND is better for the GLHouse.
ORG/CRE for the highest amount of discount buildings?
October 23rd, 2012, 11:49
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My guess for picks:
Scooter -> Carthage
Ruff_Hi -> Ragnar
Regoarrarrarrarr -> Rome
After wards it's a bit hard, because it depends on what I pick. I think Scooter will get Sury to pair with Carthage if there's an IND leader and Bismark if there's no IND pick.
October 23rd, 2012, 15:06
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We'll be sword buddies if you pick Ragnar of Rome  I found it hard to leverage praetorians properly against a stack of axes + 1-2 spearmen, though.
IMD/IND India looks very appealing for GLH REXing. What's the map size?
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