[SPOILERS] Serdoa - PBEM47

[Serdoa]

Starting screenshot

[Serdoa]

Snake pick has started, mackoti goes first and picks India. Maybe we should simply concede now, would save us all some months time.

[Serdoa]

Novice picked Pacal (Fin/Exp), as to be expected without any bans, point systems etc. I feel sorry for Gaspar because he wanted to play a game without point system to actually once play with those leaders / civs that are normally banned and now he will only play against them. And that against a few of the best players on RB. Not sure that was what he actually tried to achieve (and actually probably also not what I wanted tbh, I know already that I can compete with Seven / mackoti in the early game but fall apart in the mid-game - never gone into late with them).

[Serdoa]

And I picked Inca, also expected I assume.

Lets see what Seven and then Gaspar do. I'd assume Seven goes for FIN / x, but I am not sure about the x. Not CRE I suppose, he wasn't ranking it very high in his PBEM43 analysis. ORG was what he had in PBEM43 and also I believe it loses some of it appeal with us playing on Noble (though the Standard map makes Distance Maintenance a little bit higher than Small; not sure if that is offset by making the no. of cities maintenance higher though). IMP maybe? I am actually thinking about that myself, as the map seems to be rather big for 5 players (60x32 = 1920 tiles, ~640 water (30%) leaves around 250 tiles / player). SPI certainly is another interesting possibility and Seven is able to make it work. Probably would also be good for me, to actually learn to play in the mid-game. IND obviously can be put to use, but I think we all come around to the point where we believe that if we want a wonder, we can get it without IND.

AGG / CHA / PRO are clearly not going to happen. PHI is not Sevens most loved trait either I think. So, yeah, probably either SPI or IMP or he takes CRE (Willem) just to not have to worry about border popping.

edit: Had that written before he picked, but had it saved as Draft as I wanted to add stuff. As he has picked now, I'll post it right away.

[Serdoa]

So, now it is Gaspars turn to choose civ and leader.

I think in a setup as ours with no bans it is really hard as the 5th to pick. You always have the feeling that you pick something much weaker as the others as the best civs as well as the best leaders are already gone. Of course he still has Sury (but that means no FIN) or Huayna and Mansa (with FIN but both need certain strategies). But it is not as clear cut as being first or second and just choosing India or Pacal.

The real problem starts with the civ though. With India and Inca gone, you certainly have to think about it much more in detail. Which starting techs do I have, is the unique building enough to offset maybe weaker starting techs, do I care about the unique unit? All those questions don't need to be asked with India. The Fast Worker IS such a strong peace- and wartime unit that all the other boni just become uninteresting. You have Myst, Mining as starting techs? Well, whatever.

So, what do I expect of him? Well, Sumeria is a possibility, even though the Ziggurat is not as strong as on a higher difficulty, it is still a nice, cheap courthouse and you will want to build courthouses anyway. And of course the starting techs are the most expensive ones. Ottomans would be a possibility too, Hammams are not too bad and the starting techs are again the most expensive ones. The starting techs are the same also for France and Babylon, but I can't see any reason to take Babylon over Sumeria or Ottomans. France is nice for the Musketeer, but the Musket itself is for me a unit that seldomly will be used for attacks, and if you do, than you are in front already and probably are fine with a one-mover as well. But it has its uses certainly.

As a not-so possible choice I see China. The starting techs are nice for letting you play the opening however you want - of course with our start that is not that important imo. The Pavillion can be interesting for an AW-game, though in that case you should combine it with CRE to get the most out of it I think. But even then, it just is not as good as Sumeria imo, as it is much more circumstancial.

[Serdoa]

Well, Gaspar chose Huayna of Mali. I can absolutely see Huayna, though I personally don't want IND anymore and don't think it is one of the stronger traits. Of course a Commodore map might easily not have Stone nor Marble, but even then I'd still prefer other traits I think. But, it has its merits for certain. SH can normally be gotten relatively easy though not starting with Myst could potentially set them back on that front - if they even try. I think the more probable variant is that they ignore everything to get Oracle and use it for Metal Casting. Certainly a nice tech, especially with half-price forges that give +10% gold, but you need the city to make 10 gold first. And it is weakend by having water being not that important, otherwise Colossus can really be strong.

Will be interesting to track their first 30-40 turns and see what they actually do.

[Serdoa]

Next up, I need to choose a leader. I have thought a little bit about it already. From all the traits available, we can scratch AGG, CHA, CRE (Terrace replaces it good enough), IND and of course PRO. That leaves just 6 traits to consider: FIN, EXP, IMP, ORG, PHI, SPI in the following combinations

FIN/IMP - FIN/ORG - FIN/PHI - FIN/SPI
EXP/IMP - EXP/ORG - EXP/PHI - EXP/SPI
IMP/ORG - IMP/PHI - IMP/SPI
ORG/PHI - ORG/SPI
PHI/SPI

ORG seems rather weak in this setup as Lighthouses are probably not that often needed, Factories come too late to matter and that leaves only Courthouses at half price as well as the civic upkeep reduction. Certainly a strong trait, but I think if I can choose between FIN and it, I'll always take FIN. I will therefore remove all ORG pairings that exist as FIN as well

FIN/IMP - FIN/ORG - FIN/PHI - FIN/SPI
EXP/IMP - EXP/ORG - EXP/PHI - EXP/SPI
IMP/PHI - IMP/SPI
PHI/SPI

That shortened the list considerably. Next on the line is PHI. I actually have the same feeling here as I do with IND: It is a nice trait, it can help, but in the end, it makes often no difference if you have it. For IND it simply comes down to the point that others can tech faster than I because instead of IND they are FIN and despite being IND I can't even compete for the wonders. PHI has a different problem but the effect is the same, that I'd rather have an other trait. You can produce your first GP easier and earlier, but afterwards what is the bonus? With Pacifism you can produce even more GP, but you can do that anyhow with it. And of course we are in a AW-game, so using Pacifism won't work that great if I don't have SPI to help the switching around. In that case, PHI might actually be strong IF I can bulb in the right direction. That seems to be one of the key problems, that you just bulb something unimportant. Or don't get 1000-1500 beakers but just 400 or 500 with your bulb. Also in AW people won't simply let you tech along in peace (or bulb along). I'll just scratch all except PHI/SPI and FIN/PHI for now, I don't think I'd even take it over FIN anyhow.

FIN/IMP - FIN/ORG - FIN/PHI - FIN/SPI
EXP/IMP - EXP/ORG - EXP/SPI
IMP/SPI - PHI/SPI

Ok. What next? IMP of course. Thats easy insofar as that it only provides +50% hammers on settlers and 100% GG-points. The second one is great simply for the fact that it gives you more GG, and in AW I'd expect some to be produced. That could be made even more stronger via TGW, as I don't think we banned it nor the GSpy. Of course no missions with him, but just settling would be fine (bombing someone would be even better and might also actually not be banned, don't want to ask though right now...). And +50% hammers on settlers is great. That capital will be a settler-pump in that case, it is just ridiculous hammer-heavy but not very good for commerce. The question is, for now, is it stronger than ORG in this setup? I think it depends. ORG is a commerce-trait, making me tech faster while IMP is making me expand faster and - if I do it right - only indirectly strenghtening my commerce. That said, I think I would rather have IMP. But I am really not sure. Seems that isn't working out that great right now. Guess I'll take some time away from this and come back later.

[Serdoa]

Everyones probably seen that I chose Joao in the end. Not sure that was the right choice but I certainly wanted to get EXP with Inca and that meant no FIN for me. And CRE with Inca seems kinda pointless too. So that left only ORG, IMP, PHI, SPI and theoretically IND. But Gaspar took IND and I am not going to start wonder-races with the second-weakest (after me) in that line-up. Would only hurt the both of us. ORG also didn't seem very appealing in the end, making it a run between SPI and PHI. I don't trust myself to actually use SPI to its fullest (even though as micro-manager I theoretically should be able to do exactly that) and I have a feeling I'd not be all that happy with PHI in the end.

So, long short story, I didn't really think about all that. I just decided, heck, it doesn't matter, lets just take Joao and see if you can outrex them without getting completely obliterated. And well, my best sim so far gets me 3 workers, 2 settlers till T23. Pretty sure I won't find anything better than that. In fact, I'll have to test that in my sandbox to see if I haven't overlooked something, which might very well be the case. I mean apart from not having defenses - well, two warrior. Should be enough, I hope.

[Serdoa]

Well, checked it, it certainly is doable. Doesn't help of course if the land is shit. And I'll have to be very careful where I settle, as I won't have many (any) worker turns to actually help the first city along. Best would be a place where I can share the Ivory. Oh, also, I won't have a trade-connection. On Noble I hope that should not hurt my tech-rate (well, indirectly of course it does by not going up).

It's kinda funny. I thought the Ivory certainly would be the first tile to improve, but by my sims it seems that actually I won't improve it before T25. Getting the sheep and a GH mined ist providing 8 hammers, which triggers the EXP and IMP-bonus quite nicely. And has 1 food to spare as well. Biggest issue is how to grow though. I need to get the rice improved for that and it is kinda akward to actually get my workers moved there. India has a big advantage here, as it can move directly into the Ivory-forest and improve it on the same turn, move onto the sheep from there, directly, without wasting a turn sitting in between the two tiles. Thats already 2 saved worker turns. That would help alot.

Well, anyhow, I am not sure if it wouldn't actually be better to grow a little bit first. But that would mean getting the rice imrpoved first which really is the worst tile to reach - or rather to move back from afterwards. I can't reach neither Ivory nor Sheep from there within a turn and as I can't move on those two tiles and improve directly (forest respectively hill) I actually lose another turn. Two worker turns, just for moving... and another two if I move from one of those tiles to the next. Thats why I try to get two workers as quickly as possible. That will make the moving around easier.

Guess I could try to delay the second worker slightly by improving the rice first and then improve sheep and ivory with the two of them, producing workers and settler with those 2 and a mined hill afterwards. Or just do as I planned but after the first settler and third worker not chop but improve the rice and the ivory. That would give me the possibility to grow to size 5 till t27 and from there on I can work sheep (3/2), ivory (2/3), 3x ghm (3/9) and the center (3/1), for a total of 1 spare f,15h; that gives 19fh for a worker, 23fh for a settler. Probably would try to save some food and actually work ivory and 4 ghm when building a worker to make him 2 turns.

[Serdoa]

Well, tested more (because in game nothing is happening, apart from finding mostly so-so land). Till T30 I can get 4 cities and 5-6 workers. Probably some more if I whip, though I have foregone that for now. I still have around a week to actually decide, as I will keep my plan for the first 12 turns for certain by now. As of now, most of this is wasting time anyhow, because I simply don't know enough about the land. I only found a nice spot for a commerce-city till now (some floodplains, wet corn in second ring) but I am probably not going to settle that first, just needs to many techs and worker turns that I do not have for not enough output in the foodhammer department.