[SPOILERS] SevenSpirits plays a civ game, dun dun dun dun dun!

[SevenSpirits]

So I picked Zara and then immediately got paranoid that there was an option I had accidentally not copies over from the main thread. So I counted them up and I only have 11!!!!

OK, some investigation in the main thread reveals that we were supposed to add Lincoln of Aztec to the list. Whew, no problem, that guy is down at -3.5, between De Gaulle and Alexander.

[SevenSpirits]

So Krill picked Asoka of Netherlands, Kyan obviously chose Sury of Germany, Serdoa to my great delight picked Julius of Vikings, and I was left able to get Zara of Celts. I feel a bit sorry for Thoth and Ichabod.

Zara (CRE, ORG) is great here. I played him already on a similar map that was a prince toroid, and liked him a lot. He has a fast trait (CRE) and a long-game trait (ORG) which have some nice synergy in addition to the harmonious quality of a fast and long trait: CRE gets more libraries, and ORG can run a higher slider so libraries are more effective. Taken by himself, Zara is close in power level to Sury, and probably better than Asoka, in this setup.

However, the Celts are a bad civ, since they start with hunting and mysticism - Hunting being cheap and often not needed, and mysticism enabling no improvements. With CRE, mysticism is even more painfully bad. However, it's not too terrible. All we really needed was one AH prerequisite to get started on some food tiles, and hunting serves that purpose fine. (Also, we will definitely want it sometime soon for the ivory, so it's not a complete waste compared to agriculture, which is generally more useful.) Anyway it's pretty much like we are starting down a full tech, and that's a pretty direct comparison you can make with Sury of Germany, which gets mining instead of mysticism.

But hey! Celts have a UU and UB, maybe they will do something?
1) The Gallic Warrior is a swordsman who can be built with copper instead of iron, and who has a free Guerilla I promo. That could be useful, mainly as an occasional different city defender for a hill city, but also, they can take G2 with just 2xp, allowing double hill movement, so that could be handy in some situations too.
2) The Dun is a Walls replacement that gives eligible units built in that city Guerilla I. Eligible units are Recon, Archery, and Gunpowder units. But since Walls obsolete with Rifling, Rifles and beyond don't get the bonus. So it applies to Scouts*, Archers, Longbows, Crossbows, and Musketmen, and potentially Grenadiers. Free promos are always good, and Guerilla is a good line for city defenders, since you often want to settle to-be-attacked cities on hills anyway. (And also, it's a good line for archers and longbows, who already have an inherent hill defense bonus.) So it's a useful ability and I will probably build at least one Dun (more if I have stone for them).

Overall these bonuses are fairly unimportant, but I think it's comparable with the UU/UB of e.g. the Ottomans. Mild bonus that doesn't nearly make up for the awful techs.

* Explorers already have G1.

[SevenSpirits]

Moved the scout directly east because it reveals the same number of relevant tiles as moving the scout to the PH. As it turns out, the two tiles in question were both river grass. One tile revealed was sugar, which I will farm and later plantation, so I decided that the food penalty of moving away from the sheep would be survivable. (it also meant that settling 1NE, on the ivory, was less palatable.) Tradeoff of move:
Gain grass hill gold, river grass, river grass hill; and +1h on city tile.
Lose grass sheep, river plains hill, plains; and 3 forests (1 each on a grass, plain, river grass)

I would have a hard time deciding between those two starts if a plains hill plant and 1t move cost were not factors. But I think the plains hill plant is worth noticeably more than the 1t move cost, so move it is. This city should grow into a very lovely bureaucracy capital.

Btw, water nearby is almost all lakes. However to the northeast (but not the north!) there is saltwater. We should get a clearer view of that in the next turn or two. But it's already occurred to me that settling N of the sheep, or right around there, could be good: claiming a food resource and being between sea and lake as an ORG (cheap lighthouse) leader.

[zakalwe]

Moved the scout directly east

Ack, it's contagious.

Looks like a good commerce capital if you can only manage to grow it large.

[Kurumi]

Moved the scout directly east

Ack, it's contagious.

Looks like a good commerce capital if you can only manage to grow it large.

Also a great hammer spot.

[SevenSpirits]

Not sure of the plan yet, hence no tech selected. Surprisingly, Agriculture->AH is a possibility along with straight AH first.

I am thinking worker - warrior - worker - grow to 3 - settler, right now. We already have a couple great second city prospects via the sheep and pig tiles, so a settler ASAP would be great. But we surely need to be working pig + gold building the settler, and that's only +9/t into the settler. So my instinct is that growing to size 3 first is worthwhile, though the specifics could prove me wrong.

Worker-worker-warrior is also an option compared to worker-warrior-worker.

[SevenSpirits]

Best plan I've come up with yet, t1-26:

Build is worker (8t), warrior + growth (5t), worker2 (5t), warrior2 + 4h into henge + growth (2t), settler (6t)
Tech order: AH (8t) Agriculture (5t) Mining (4t) Wheel (4t) BW (5t)
Worker 1: move to pigs (2), pasture (3), move to sugar (1), farm (4), move to gold (1), mine (3), road (2), road S of city (2)
Worker 2: move NE (1), road (2), road sheep (2), pasture sheep (3)

t27 we revolt to slavery and settler moves to the roaded hill. t28 the second city is settled N of the sheep and it's already improved. (It was in borders since t13 due to CRE.)

Capital most likely produces a second settler while we research pottery. worker2 camps the ivory and mines the roaded hill. worker1 prepares for city3.

[NobleHelium]

I've always thought that you overvalue turn order (particularly in AW) and the only time I've agreed with the double reverse order pick scheme was in 45 when there were serious restrictions on combinations and thus picking later was not as bad.

[Bigger]

I love the arguments you are having with yourself in your screenshots. please don't stop that.

[pindicator]

I have to agree, the screenshots have a nice graphic novel quality to it