WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Jkaen]

I just can't see novice as scum Jowy :/
I'd probably lynch zak before matt, but not novice.

Qgq, is this still the case?

I think it seems pretty obvious both me and Jowy are locked onto Zak and Novice as scum now, whichever one we don't get today I know I will be voting for tomorrow.

Hence if you would prefer to lynch zak over Novice I would probably be ok with that.

[Qgqqqqq]

...
Jowy

I think Q is the other one, and Jkaen is the wrongheaded villager that they're counting on to carry the day.

Why do you think I'm the other one??? Are you just parroting novices ideas or does anyone feel any inclination to present a case on me?
I mean seriously...its not like its day 1.

Qgq, Yesterday you said that you just couldn't see Novice as scum, have the results from the lynch and the night kill changed your mind, or do you still feel that?

It's looking pretty obvious that you are going to be the swing vote today between the brothers and the 'Jays', but I would hope you have already come round to our thinking

Not particularly. I mean, I get what you're saying, I didn't see Azarius as scum at all, but Matt was one of my secondary scum candidates which basically makes me think Jowy/zak or Jowy/you...I don't think novice/Jowy or novice/jkaen is possible given how hard they are attacking one another, so otherwise it's zak/novice which feels...a bit blatant given how much zak has sheeped novice this game. Oh and there's also Jkaen/zak, that's a possibility, but I'm pretty confident that Jowy's scum at this point. If I had to put a bet on the second scum, I'd go for zak, as I get a townish feel from your posts.
What do you think on Jowy, Jkaen?

We had a proven village tracker say he visited novice.
We had a no kill the day he visited novice
We had no other counter claim that somebody else was responsible for the no kill

I think it was pretty well solid that Novice had been jailed, there was no need to kill Azarius to prove it.

As for getting MJW lynched, Novice has done it before to great success, and as has been mentioned I think everybody is convinced MJW was going down this game anyway due to the style he chose to play with.

I agree, I don't think they killed of Azarius for throwing dirt on novice, I think it was just to eliminate a (practically - there were wild theories to the contrary, but I doubt those could've persuaded the village at lylo) confirmed town.

[Qgqqqqq]

Ah, cross post.

I just can't see novice as scum Jowy :/
I'd probably lynch zak before matt, but not novice.

Qgq, is this still the case?

I think it seems pretty obvious both me and Jowy are locked onto Zak and Novice as scum now, whichever one we don't get today I know I will be voting for tomorrow.

Hence if you would prefer to lynch zak over Novice I would probably be ok with that.

Yeah, I'd definitely lynch zak before novice. I'm just more confident of Jowy as scum at this point, so I'm not sure I'd lynch him first.

[Jkaen]

Oh dear, was hoping you had been convinced.

Not a chance I am voting for anybody other than Zak or Novice today. Willing to go with whichever one gets your vote.

Can you explain to me your main issues regarding them being the remaining pair, let me see if I can convince you otherwise?

[Jkaen]

Well ok Zakalwe

[Qgqqqqq]

Zak and Novice is the obvious scum duo. Just like MJW, they also played up to their reputation. And it almost worked. If Azarius hadn't stopped that night kill, we would have already lost because it'd be 2-2 today. It was an effective strategy, something I'd expect from Zak and Novice. Even now I fear we have to argue hard to get Q on our side.

They are good enough players to not play a game like this if they were villagers. And I think they realized this, which is why they chose to sacrifice MJW for village credit. And it is partly working, because without that sacrifice we wouldn't even need to discuss anything, they would be 100% auto-lynches.

I wouldn't be auto-lynching either of them without the MJW lynch. I'd be more suspicious, sure, but not auto-lynch. But why did zak and novice choose to bus MJW when they could've killed matt, and then used their reputations and large voting bloc to swing a mislynch on the last day?

[Jowy]

Zakalwe

[novice]

I'm only caught up to post 709

Q, why are you scummy? See post 646 - process of elim. coupled with not sticking your neck out and general walls of text. I've noticed you have made some original cases though. It is true that you made a post on MjW that prompted me to switch onto him, I had forgotten that. Also aligning yourself with me and Zak on a lot of cases. It's all pretty tenuous I'll admit.

Jkaen, I agree nobody doubted there was a jailer. So how does the night action confirm anything about me? Killing Azarius is the patently obvious thing to do if I'm town. If I'm scum I could at least consider killing one of the Jays to get rid of a vote.

Jkaen I'm not sure what you're saying about swinging people. Are you saying I should have tried swinging it to a third person when nobody wanted to vote Q? Mattimeo wasn't that bad a lynch, Azarius voting for him counted for something too.

Why was I voting Mattimeo in the first place? He was my top lynch, but thinking about the game when I was offline I concluded he probably was town, and launched Q as a candidate when I came back online.

About wanting to get nightkilled. I didn't say anything about my busy schedule prior to day 4 because I wanted to get nightkilled. On day 4 it would have been lame, I know I think it's scummy when people say they're too busy to defend. I think I did use what time I had to point out what was wrong about the cases on me. Nonetheless I have to bring it up now when you start attacking me for lack of proactive defense on day 4.

[Jkaen]

Zak and Novice is the obvious scum duo. Just like MJW, they also played up to their reputation. And it almost worked. If Azarius hadn't stopped that night kill, we would have already lost because it'd be 2-2 today. It was an effective strategy, something I'd expect from Zak and Novice. Even now I fear we have to argue hard to get Q on our side.

They are good enough players to not play a game like this if they were villagers. And I think they realized this, which is why they chose to sacrifice MJW for village credit. And it is partly working, because without that sacrifice we wouldn't even need to discuss anything, they would be 100% auto-lynches.

I wouldn't be auto-lynching either of them without the MJW lynch. I'd be more suspicious, sure, but not auto-lynch. But why did zak and novice choose to bus MJW when they could've killed matt, and then used their reputations and large voting bloc to swing a mislynch on the last day?

MJW wouldn't have survived. If he didn't go down on day 2, then he would have been the runner up against a lynched villager.

That would have got people thinking he had been saved from the lynch, which would have added even more pressure onto the vote against him. With the amount of crazy he was throwing out this game I am not sure they would have been confident of winning the vote, especailly at that time Novice hadn't been 'saved' by the jailor.

Much better to help take him down on day 2 and gain credit, than to push hard agaisnt his rival, showing their hand somewhat and still probably face him going day 3.

Plus they very much know only 1 wolf has to live to make it a wolf win, I would expect them to be very pragmatic about sacrificing individual members if it helped the pack

[Jkaen]

Jkaen, I agree nobody doubted there was a jailer. So how does the night action confirm anything about me? Killing Azarius is the patently obvious thing to do if I'm town. If I'm scum I could at least consider killing one of the Jays to get rid of a vote.

Night action didnt need to confirm anything, I was already locked on at that point, and it took out the most villager like player in my opinion.

Jkaen I'm not sure what you're saying about swinging people. Are you saying I should have tried swinging it to a third person when nobody wanted to vote Q? Mattimeo wasn't that bad a lynch, Azarius voting for him counted for something too.

Zak stated very clearly he would join you on Q. I am sure one of you could have persuaded others to hop over as well.

About wanting to get nightkilled. I didn't say anything about my busy schedule prior to day 4 because I wanted to get nightkilled. On day 4 it would have been lame, I know I think it's scummy when people say they're too busy to defend. I think I did use what time I had to point out what was wrong about the cases on me. Nonetheless I have to bring it up now when you start attacking me for lack of proactive defense on day 4.

Its not really lack of defense, but going into the Mattimeo reveal it felt you were already getting your excuses in for when he turned village.